Initial climb flow (button control).

[os777 0]

Hi all,
My first post on the forum.

I am having some problem with the initial climb using FS2Crew button control and Maddog X 64b (1.3 b317) in P3D V4.3.

I am most probably doing something wrong but here's my problem:
I cant ask (press) for the VNAV engagement until after flap/slats retraction and climb CL have been performed, This seems to make acceleration impossible since the FD continues to demand a V2+10 pitch.
Could it just be that the FD bars shouldn't be followed during climb?
Any inputs or suggestions would be highly appreciated.

Best regards Oskar

[byork 2,259]

According to the manual, you'd engage VNAV at 3000 feet.

If you want to engage VNAV earlier, I suppose you could do it manually.

 

[os777 0]

Hi and thanks for the replay,

Yes I tried to engage VNAV manually and that worked, the thing is I would've preferred to have the FO do it by pressing the FS2Crew buttons, thing seems to be I don't get the option to do so until after flap retraction/climb CL, this creates a catch 22 for me since I'm not able to accelerate to flap retraction speed before VNAV has been engaged.

 

Best regards Oskar

[byork 2,259]

You should consider Voice Control.

Button Control by its nature is more limiting.

Voice offers much more flexibility.

 

[os777 0]

Hi,

I guess I will have to try the voice then,

Also thanks for a great product, I'm using it throughout my fleet.

 

/Oskar

[gazpatt 12]

I use button control and at 1500ft I use the pitch wheel to reduce pitch as described in the pdf training notes on the maddog website, this enables me to speed up to get FO to move on to flaps up stage.

"Reaching the desired height for noise abatement (e.g. 3000ft), accelerate towards FLAP/SLAT retract speed by selecting half of the current climb rate (VERT SPD) via the pitch wheel on the FGCP. Once acceleration process is complete continue climb-out with IAS/MACH, EPR LIM or VNAV."

Obviously there is still some minor input from yourself but it works well with button control.

[os777 0]

Thank's for the tip Gazpatt, I'll give it a try on the next flight.

 

/Oskar

[Wothan 173]

Look at this YT video:

 

NOTE!

MCP speed is set to 250 kts before take off - not V2+10.

Also VNAV is selected allready when reaching 1200-1300 ft (AP off).

Flaps are set to 11° at take off, and retracted at appr. 1500 ft / 165 kts.

Slats are retraced sometime before/at 210 kts.

 

With FS2Crew (Button control) I get this.

• "Ready"
• "Take off"
• "80 kts" - "V1" - "Rotate"
• "Positive climb" -> "Gear Up"
• "Select HDG / NAV" -> "NAV"
• "FLAPS UP" - "FLAPS UP" (but the aircraft often stalls, since Flight Director commands MCP set V2+10).
• "Climb CK"
• "Select VNAV" -> "VNAV"

So something is kind of mixed around - or I miss something.

I guess the order should rather be:

• "Positive climb" -> "Gear Up"
• "Select HDG / NAV" -> "NAV" (400 ft).
• "Select VNAV" -> "VNAV" (1500 ft / acceleration altitude).
• "FLAPS UP" - "FLAPS UP" (should only be called near Flaps / slats retraction speeds).
• "Climb CK" (not to be called before in a steady climb when other tasks has settled down).

Edited April 17, 2019 by Wothan

[byork 2,259]

Hi Finn,

There's a million ways to skin a cat.

We modeled it the way they do it at one airline.

Other airlines and other pilots will do things differently.

Cheers,

 

[Wothan 173]

10 hours ago, byork said:

Hi Finn,

There's a million ways to skin a cat.

We modeled it the way they do it at one airline.

Other airlines and other pilots will do things differently.

Cheers,

 

No offence Bryan.

I just tried to tell that I also often get into a stall if I just go with flow of FS2Crew, but offcourse I should not simply "obey" FS2Crew, but rather think myself at fly the aircraft.

Actually I should regards "acceleration altitude" for what it means.

[rafgath 1]

byork,

Please find attached. Page 123 [Take-Off]. It would be great to have it modelled according to manual. 

https://www.mudspike.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/P3D-Leonardo-MD-82-Guide.pdf

Regards

Edited April 21, 2019 by rafgath

[Wothan 173]

The FS2crew procedure as such is not wrong, but for me it comes in a wrong sequence, I find.

As described further up in this thread, FS2Crew (Button control) comes with option Flaps/Slats retract before the VNAV call, but until the VNAV call, the aircraft climbs at the set V2+10 speed if following the Flight director, and retracting Flaps/Slats does not make sense at that point.

Regardless what SOP the procedure is based on, Flaps and Slats retraction should not be shown before accelerating close to the retraction speeds.

 

Right now I just follow my own procedure:

• "Positive climb" -> "Gear Up" (Using FS2Crew)
• "Select HDG / NAV" -> "NAV" (400 ft). (Using FS2Crew)
• "Select VNAV" -> "VNAV" (1500 ft / acceleration altitude). (Manually selected by me)
• "FLAPS UP" - "FLAPS UP" (should only be called near Flaps / slats retraction speeds). (Using FS2Crew)
• "Climb CK" (not to be called before in a steady climb when other tasks has settled down). (Using FS2Crew)

To follow FS2Crew procedure VNAV should not be engaged before 3000 ft.

For FS2Crews flow to work, You would need to disregard the Flight director at 1500 ft and lower pitch, to f.ex to half the present vertical speed, inorder to accelerate and get to the Flaps / slats retraction speeds before FS2Crew enables the VNAV call.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Wothan

[Wothan 173]

After having looked at serveral real life videos of MD-82 take offs and reading the documents the procedure should be like this:

MCP speed should NOT be set to V2+10, but should be set to 250 kts ! - This is what is described in the Maddog X Normal procedures.

With the DFGC set to "TAKE OFF / TAKE OFF" the flight director will guide You to fly V2+10 anyway.

 

The flow with FS2Crew will then be like this:

• MCP Speed set to 250, Speedbugs set to V1, V2, FR, SR
• Call: "Ready"
• Set EPR= 1,4
• Call: "Take off"
• Once FO sets A/T to On - advnace the throttles fully before reaching 60 kts, where CLMP will be set.
• FO Calls: "80 kts" - "V1" - "Rotate"
• Follow FD Bars
• FO Calls: "Positive climb" -> You Call: "Gear Up"
• "Select HDG / NAV" -> You Call: "NAV"
• At 1500 ft rotate the V/S wheel to a setting of ½ the current V/S.
• Also at 1500 ft - You Call: "CLIMB" Thrust
• As Flaps and slats retraction speeds are reached command....
• You Call: "FLAPS UP" - "SLATS RETRACT"
• You Call: "Climb CK"
• at 3000 ft "Select VNAV" -> You Call: "VNAV"

 

 

[byork 2,259]

If you're the PF, that's very, very similar to what FS2Crew is already doing, with the exception of the 250 knot part.

What happens if you manually set 250 knots in the MCP prior to takeoff?

 

[Wothan 173]

3 hours ago, byork said:

If you're the PF, that's very, very similar to what FS2Crew is already doing, with the exception of the 250 knot part.

What happens if you manually set 250 knots in the MCP prior to takeoff?

 

I will try the pricedure this evening, since tge 259 knot MCP speed is what all the in cockpit MD-82 take off videos shows.

My issue with FS2Crew Button control is that the FS2Crew panel puts the Flaps/Slats Retract command right after the HDG/NAV command, though I',m still climbing at V2+10, which the current TAKEOFF/TAKEOFF FD command bars dictate, thus I need to retract Flsps and Slats way below their retraction speeds and thereby stalls.

The VNAV FS2Crew call only appears after calling Flaps/Slats retract.

S right now I have to manually select VNAV myself, engage the AP and then as the aircraft accelerates throug the Flaps/Slats retraction speeds command FS2Crew to do so.

 

What I have missed, or where FS2Crew misses, is to lower the pitch at accelleration sltitude (1500 ft) inorder to reach the retraction speeds before the VNAV call by FS2Crew. Also the FS2Crew Flaps and Slats retraction calls should not be available before getting close to those speeds.