flyswiss

No Diamonds@ILS Approach

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Hi there,

This is my first post.:-)

I've just tried some approaches into Zürich-Kloten  Airport (LSZH) using ILS and GPS - RWY 16 - ILSfreq.110.50  ILShdg.154 as shown over here =>

However, at no point do the diamonds show up on my Flight Display. I have engaged NAV and App switches at the right moment, but the default B738-800 aircraft just turned to the right and then flew directly into the ground.

* Sorry for my possible mistakes [writing in English] , I am not a native English speaker, I am Swiss!

Edited by Jim Young
Embedded video.

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Did you set NAV1 with the correct frequency for the runway and make sure the course in the panel was set correctly? 

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Assuming you have the course set correctly to 154, and the NAV 1 radio frequency is correctly tuned to 110.50 and have transferred that from the radio's standby window to the active window (make sure it is the NAV radio you do this with, not the COM radio which is an easy mistake to make), now all you should need to do is switch on CMD A button (i.e. the autopilot switch) and VOR/LOC (i.e. the localiser tracking switch). This should line you up with the runway and when the diamond appears in the middle off the right hand side of the Primary Flight Display, you then select the APP (approach button) which is what will commence the descent. Don't forget to engage the autothrottle to make life a bit easier and try setting the speed to somewhere around 140 knots for the final touchdown. Don't forget the landing gear and the flaps either!

Set your aeroplane up like this (on the FSX map) and give it a go:

pn7NRBm.png

 

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Thank you for being so attentive and responsive!

@ Jim Young wrote " Did you set NAV1 with the correct frequency for the runway and make sure the course in the panel was set correctly?"

=> Yes Sir! Be assured that all these entries are absolutely correct inc. flaps, speed and all that good staff... 

@ Chock wrote " Set your aeroplane up like this (on the FSX map) and give it a go"

Sir, I am NOT using IFR Flight Plan (no ifr file saved). All my settings are done within the GPS. ( select approach/ activate approach/ activate-vectors-to-final. And yes all my settings are absolutely correct so far . I just did it exactly as shown in the video above. At about 10 miles before landing  and with The PAPI system / lights  appearing on the horizon  I have switched the GPS to NAV with and VOR/LOC (localiser tracking switch is in its ON position) At this point I was just waiting for the diamond (the one on the right!!) starting descending all the way down in order to engage the APP button.

What am I doing wrong?

 

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46 minutes ago, flyswiss said:

Yes Sir! Be assured that all these entries are absolutely correct inc. flaps, speed and all that good staff...

We are trying to help.  My question and others are intended to make sure you accomplished these actions as you did not indicate that in your original post (OP).  We get a lot of members who simply state, "I cannot land the 737.  Can you help?"  That is not enough information.  The questions are not meant to say that you did anything wrong but just to make sure you took certain actions.  You would have been best to write down exactly what you did so someone can try to replicate.  Forcing everyone to watch a tutorial video which may or may not be correct, is not helpful.  We want to know what YOU did, not the person in the video.  I would suspect this is not going to get resolved.  In the real world, the 737 uses a Flight Management Computer (FMC).  The basic fsx does not use a FMC.  If you are not seeing "diamonds" then there is something you are doing wrong.  You will just have to watch the video and watch it again unless you sit down and write down exactly everything you did.

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I think you are forgetting to fly the plane.

You should aim to be near to the entrance to the arrows at the right altitude...usually about 3000 ft above the ground.

given that you should have tuned the Nav radios (both of them if you have 2)

when you see the diamond on the bottom start to move to the centre press the Loc button and the aircraft should move and turn towards it.

You should see the height diamond on the top right.

maintain your altitude (I suggest pressing the alt hold button) as you get closer the diamond will start to move down and when it is near the middle press the APP button. wind down the altitude to 0

you should have already pressed one autopilot button, you can now press the other one as well.

from now on the aircraft should approach the runway however you are responsible for speed.

If all conditions are met the screen will blink just under 1000 ft and it will display flare or flare/roundout on the display.

If it is flare just sit back and aproach at the landing speed and just as you pass the runway entrance pull the throttle to idle. hold the airplane straight and level and it will sink to the runway.

If you are flying fsx there is a very good tutorial both written and as a programmed flight in the lessons section.  I think if you are serious about flying you need to do these or the equivalent.  They contain information that would cost you hundreds of dollars (euros) to buy if you were  preparing for real world flying.

 

The aircraft 

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With the NAV1 radio tuned to the proper ILS frequency, did you also have the NAV1 audio turned on and did you hear the Morse Code Identifier?  Did you also have the proper runway 16 identifier in the MFD display?

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Thank you! Your help would be much appreciated!

Quote

@HarryI think you are forgetting to fly the plane

..Well I don´ t think so! Let me see...

With that sad and before getting into my issue back again, just let´s first of all check out my Specs and Addons installed on my computer and see if I am missing here something.

1. Mainboard:=> Intel Z370 ATX (overclocked @ 4,8 running stable, no issues so far!)
 LINK: https://www.asus.com/ch-de/Motherboards/ROG-MAXIMUS-X-CODE/
2. Grafik 2x Asus GTX 780 Cu2 in Sli Modus ( yes I know  thera is better grafik cards out there than this one but for now  I am happy with what I have.
3. Drive configuration:  SSD Raid-0 ( 4 drives ARRAY (Raid-0 with 4x Samsung 850 pro 512 GB each.
4. FSX-Steam Edition and ALL payware addons (listed bellow) installed on a separatedPCI-E  drive  => Intel SSD Flash DC P3520, 1.2TB,PCI-Expres (1200GB, PCI-Express)
LINK: https://ark.intel.com/products/88722/Intel-SSD-DC-P3520-Series-1-2TB-1-2-Height-PCIe-3-0-x4-3D1-MLC-5. Payware Addons installed on my machine:
PMDG 737/800/900 & Livreries, FSX FSUIPC ver.4.955, EZdok Camera Version 2.0 , REX4 Texture Direct Steam DLC, Rex Worldwide Airports HD, GSX Base & Level 2. FSWX Wather Engine, FS Water Configurator, Navaids-Airport tools. .. and that´s it!

Back to the problem itself. BTW,  I have PMDG´s 737 as well and I never had a big issue flying this aircraft or FMC problems and something  like this.The problem that I am facing described on this topic concerns exclusively the Dafult Boing 737/800. Wih that sad, I am starting now  from Geneva Airport (LSGG)  all the way down to Zürich Airport (LSZH) flying the DEFAULT 737/800.

1) TAKE OFF:
=/= Runway heading set for now (045 degrees / Geneva´s  Runway)
1.1- Speed  (I´ve set 245 Knots because I will be flying from Geneva to Zürich bellow 10.000 feet)
1.2 - Altitude: (8.000 Feet set)
1.3 - Alt/speed/ (2500 feet/min set ) in order to get faster up in the air avoiding  aircraft traffic  near the Airoport.
1.4 - Brakes (RtO position set)
1.5 - Flaps set to 10 degrees
1.6 - Pull up @ 144 knots)
GPS Switch already set to ON /BUT the  VOR LOC switch at this point is set to OFF.

2) After Taking off (..and I mean immediately after Taking off)
2.1 - Landing Gear Up
2.2 - Brakes (OFF)

3) Once in the Air
3.1 Flaps down to (0)
3.2 With (Z) Auto pilot (enabled) / AutoThrottle ( enabled),  Alt/speed changed down to ( 2000 feet / min)

4. NEXT...
4.1 - With (F3) I just bring up quickly  the GPS (LSZH // Zürich Activate??? (YES!) PROC =>Select Approach??? (YES!) => ILS 16 + Vectors => Load or Activate? ( Just I´ ve loaded it for now as pilots always do). At this point I have closed the GPS. I will bring it back again later on when needed. With the NAV / GPS switched to *GPS* and with VOR/LOC switch enabled  my Aircraft starts to turn as it should pointing nicely to Zurich Airport RWY 16. The "COURSE Switch" is now set (154 degrees) as it must be. So, it´s  time  to bring the Radio Stack in order to enter some data out there.

4.2 With F2 bring up the Radios @ NAV1 I´ve entered 110.50 and I´ve activated NAV1. I have closed the Radio Stack because I won´t needed it anymore for this Flight. About 25 Miles to go: My aircraft is flying nicely to Zurich  following   the data entered previously into the GPS. I have a nice view of this nice country called Switzerland. Everything  looks to be at its own place. Nice mountains, rivers, snow, nature pure! I am enjoying the Flight,

At this point I bring up the GPS again and I have activated " Vectors to final" in order to start descending all the way down to Zürich approaching  RWY  16. I am descending down to 3.300 feet. It should be good enough in order to capture the glide slope. I have switched from MAP to APP in order to be able to see the DIAMONDS, one of them on the bottom and another one on  the right side of my Flight display. The Diamond on right is very important at this point because it will allows me once switched from GPS to NAV WHICH I have done (btw, Vor/Lock still enabled at this point), it would allows me as  the diamond on the right reaches the middle of the slight display to switch ON the APP switch. This action would allow me  to descending precisely correct under the glide slope down to the RWY (16), because all this word not allowed would  be controlled by Auto Pilot itself till he gets by the end disengaged by myself. However...I have decreased my speed down to about 180 knots at about15 miles before grounding. My landing speed at the latest stage will be about 145 Knots for this aircraft, FLAPS (full), Spoilers and Reverse  enabled, Auto brakes set to (2). And ...of course I would be ready and able to disengage the autopilot and make a nice landing flare with this DEFAULT B737/800.

Again, at no point do the diamonds show up on my Flight Display but the default B738-800 aircraft just turned to the right and then flew directly into the ground. Sure It must be something wrong . .. Despite all my efforts, I can't figure out what I am doing wrong.  Sorry for my possible mistakes [writing in English] , as you can see I am not a native English speaker.

 

 

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I just did a test flight from Munich to Zurich.  I fly the POSKY 737-800.  I did an IFR flight to be sure I was doing all of the right things at the right time.  I'm posting a screenshot of the 2D panel as I picked up the glideslope along with the diamonds and the IZH in the MFD along with DME to the runway.  I also had the proper Morse Code.  I hit the APP button just after ATC gave me the turn to 30 degrees off of the runway heading.  The Localizer was picked up about 14 miles out and I turned onto the runway heading.  At about 9 miles out, the altitude light went out and I began my descent to the runway.  Another spectacular landing, if I do say so, myself!:happy:

 

Zurich.JPG

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@ charliearon

Sir, as I wrote on my very first post,  I am NOT using IFR Flight Plan for this Flight LSGG (Geneva) => LSZH (Zürich). I haven´t  saved any IFR File. I am using ONLY the GPS with Vor/Loc. enabled. This is a Direct Flight from Geneva to Zürich using the GPS as a help tool to align the aircraft to the runway for landing. However for more Details on this one please refer to my replay just above.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, flyswiss said:

@ charliearon

Sir, as I wrote on my very first post,  I am NOT using IFR Flight Plan for this Flight LSGG (Geneva) => LSZH (Zürich). I haven´t  saved any IFR File. I am using ONLY the GPS with Vor/Loc. enabled. This is a Direct Flight from Geneva to Zürich using the GPS as a help tool to align the aircraft to the runway for landing. However for more Details on this one please refer to my replay just above.

 

 

Saw your details.  Obviously you aren't setting  something up correctly.  As a test, try your flight flying IFR, let ATC guide you through the turns and altitudes.  See if everything you are doing is correct.

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(at) charliearon wrote this " Saw your details.  Obviously you aren't setting  something up correctly."

Are you really sure????  If yes, and if you really know it please Just tell me concretely what i am doing wrong? I would be happy to know e-x-a-c-t-l-y  WHY the Diamonds (PLEASE NOTE flying P-U-R-E GPS !! NOT IFR stuff as you always do).- are not appearing on my Flight Display Also, go ahead... come on just tell me what I am doing wrong.:-) I came  here to know that!

(at) charliearon wrote this " As a test, try your flight flying IFR, let ATC guide you through the turns and altitudes.  See if everything you are doing is correct.".

Turns are done by the GPS with VOR/Loc enabled and all Altitudes used on my Flight are 100% correct as well. You should read my Post above at least once again. Sorry, I don´ t need to Fly IFR (don´t have time for that kind of annoying flights) just to see what I am doing wrong or right! Flying IFR & ATC (IFR saved file) doing as you do it everybody can fly and land an Aircraft I guess.

Please note: Just check out the video linked above and you´ll see that the guy out there is doing exactly nearly the same steps as I always do. (and yes. without that kind of annoying IFR & ATC stuff which you´re talking about over here. The video´s Author  can get these 2x Diamonds displayed on his Flight Display. BUT not me so far. THAT´S THE POINT! This is also the main reason why I´ve posted my issue here! Please forget about  IFR flights with ATC (with a IFR saved file). I don´t play that kind of annoying games at all. That´s it! Anyway thank you anyway for your approach.

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A picture is worth a 1000 words. Can you post a Virtual Cockpit screenshot of when you are at the point on the approach where you expect to see the diamonds, please?

PMW

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Well... I am back again ! It took me a few days to master this issue BUT I have definitely found and fixed this annoying problem concerning the Diamonds by editing the the panel.cfg file. This issue is solved NOW! That´s it...Flying another GPS approach and landing with the Diamonds popping up just as it should at the right time!

Just another wonderful landing at Geneva International Airport (LSGG RWY: 5, Lenght:12789, Concrete INE, ILSfreq:110.90, Hdg: 045)

SCREENS:

1=> https://screenshot.net/3o97wh7

2=> https://screenshot.net/36k1dhn

3=> https://screenshot.net/338vmh1

 

 

 

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charliearon ???! Y-O-U... once a-g-a-i-n! NooooWAY. However... We were all born curious and eager to discover the wonder of life. Somewhere along the way to adulthood, we lost that need to ask “why.” Here's how to nurture the innate curiosity in you.

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Wow, what a real standup guy here! He asks for help, people try to help. Then he seems insulted about being asked to provide information and now refuses to share what was the solution so that others may learn. Good luck getting help in the future with this attitude of yours flyswiss.

On top of that you've directed your ire at the forum moderator. Not a "genius" move! 🙂

Edited by Oracle427

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