Worth it to overclock?

[ComSimPilot 623]

Hi all,

I want to share with you some findings and concerns that I have recently. I have a 7700K and my primary goal was to have it run at around 5.00 Ghz, or at maximum frequency/stability. I have delidded my CPU and have seen the temperature benefits. My setup has run like that for around 1.5 years. Last week, I ordered Aerosoft's EDDK and experienced an amazing stuttering situtation when fully loaded at the gate. At first I thought the developer was to blame for not optimizing the scenery, but soon after I realized that a BIOS settings modification solved my problems and the performance was smooth and nice. What was it? I reset my BIOS settings to stock, enabling  only the RAM XMP profile. Since then I have been flying at stock BIOS settings and I haven't seen any slow performance or anything that I would think of. In fact it seems more stable and the scenery is loading faster and is crisper most of the times. Of course add-ons like the FSL Airbus or heavy city scenarios bring my FPS to low 20s which is annoying. I tried to increase my RAM speed to 4000Mhz and 1.36v but I saw no difference in performance.

Today, I decided to run some tests using XTU which you can see below. The first test is while the CPU is set to 5.00 Ghz while the second at stock settings (Turbo frequency at 4.50 Ghz). What was also worth telling is that I also  tried to set my RAM speed again to 4000 Mhz at 1.36v and the CPU at 5.00 GHz and then the XTU results was less! It was around 580 points. 

So, deciding between overclocking my CPU or not,  the gain of 55 points for a temperature increase of 20C, I feel that it is not worth it. For some reason the simulation seems to run more smooth for me at 4.5 Ghz.

What is your expertise on that? Could it be a sign of my CPU aging or does this makes sense to you?

Edited November 12, 2018 by Daedalus

[Dougal 165]

I also run a delidded 7700k, currently at 5MHz, but with a manual vcore, not 'Adaptive', and all is well.  My XMP profile is also set, to 3200MHz.  If I attempt to overclock my RAM beyond 3200, I get similar results to what you've posted, and the system becomes a little unstable.

I also experience this when running Adaptive mode.

What is the standard XMP profile of your RAM?

[ComSimPilot 623]

Hi Phil, thank you for the reply. I also run a manual vcore, I found at 1.37V I have guaranteed stability. my XMP is set at 3600Mhz.

[Dougal 165]

38 minutes ago, Daedalus said:

Hi Phil, thank you for the reply. I also run a manual vcore, I found at 1.37V I have guaranteed stability. my XMP is set at 3600Mhz.

Your screenshots appear to show your system in 'Adaptive Mode'.

I also suspect, that if your XMP profile is 3600MHz, then overclocking it to 4000MHz is probably causing instability. Not sure I've ever seen RAM designed to overloack to 3600, go up to 4000, whatever the voltage.

You could probably up your CPU cache ratio a little more.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Dougal

[fghdgdfdfgfgf 111]

Well, you've made the point(s) that some of us have been trying to get across for several months now:

-not in any order of importance-

1) hi speed memory with sloppy timings means sloppy performance

2) 77000k doesn't do hi speed memory

3) memory integrity/speed does affect performance

 

I'd delid and tune it for 4.9 to 5.0 ....A 10% performance boost can mean all the difference in the sim world, especially at places where your're cpu starved. Sometimes you only need that 2 fps for complete immersion.

Edited November 12, 2018 by FunknNasty

[martin-w 3,234]

First, there's nothing wrong with adaptive mode.

And yep, if your XMP profile is 3600 MHz and you are pushing beyond that it's possibly your issue.

Don't forget, the XMP profile is an overclock. The JADEC frequency is the platforms rated frequency, and the higher XMP frequency is what the RAM manufacturer has tested the RAM to overclock to. So if you overclock your RAM further than that then yes, you can get instability. 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by martin-w

[Dougal 165]

12 minutes ago, martin-w said:

First, there's nothing wrong with adaptive mode.

 

 

Agreed Martin, but he seemed to think he was in manual mode;-)

[vc10man 732]

A superbly enlightening thread this is.

Martin, was it the Asus Maximus XII Hero you recommended for the i9-8086k? There is a test review in the current Custom PC mag.

[martin-w 3,234]

That would be XI you mean, but no, I don't recall recommending any board. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by martin-w

[ComSimPilot 623]

Thanks again very much for your inputs guys. @Dougal I know it says Adaptive on the XTU, however on the BIOS this is how I set the Vcore. It seems manual to me, correct me if wrong:

@martin-w agreed that RAM overclock will bring instabiliy, so do you think that I will gain the max performance by leaving it on the XMP profile or further tweaking can yield more performance?

@FunknNasty, agreed. That 10% is what can bring me over 30fps which as you say makes all the difference (I fly at 30Hz). However I'm thinking if reaching 80C creates underlying problems on the performance that I won't have at stock settings.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Daedalus

[vc10man 732]

32 minutes ago, martin-w said:

That would be XI you mean, but no, I don't recall recommending any board. 

Ooops, my typos, yes XI.

When the i9-8086k came out I vaguely recall me asking about a suitable MoBo for that CPU, and I think,AFAIR, you had commented/recommended/suggested a Hero MoBo?

[fghdgdfdfgfgf 111]

43 minutes ago, Daedalus said:

Thanks again very much for your inputs guys. @Dougal I know it says Adaptive on the XTU, however on the BIOS this is how I set the Vcore. It seems manual to me, correct me if wrong:

@martin-w agreed that RAM overclock will bring instabiliy, so do you think that I will gain the max performance by leaving it on the XMP profile or further tweaking can yield more performance?

@FunknNasty, agreed. That 10% is what can bring me over 30fps which as you say makes all the difference (I fly at 30Hz). However I'm thinking if reaching 80C creates underlying problems on the performance that I won't have at stock settings.

My bad ....you have delided, as in a past tense.  If that 80c is just a spike temp but your average temps are otherwise in the low 70's to mid 70's I think you'd be fine. Based on the info you have supplied so far, it seems to me that with some bios tuning you might find some room to shave a few degrees Celsius and get that overclock performance where you want it..

Edited November 12, 2018 by FunknNasty

[ComSimPilot 623]

Thank you very much @FunknNasty : ) Yes, this is what I try to achieve. Right now I added a 2 factor AVX and reduced the Vcore at 1.35v trying to see how stable it will be. I think I will stick to the XMP profile for the RAM and try not to change it.

[martin-w 3,234]

Quote

agreed that RAM overclock will bring instabiliy, so do you think that I will gain the max performance by leaving it on the XMP profile or further tweaking can yield more performance?

 

XMP is tested as stable by the manufacturer, tweaking above that by 100 or 200 MHz won't make a huge difference, doubt you'd even notice. And given that you have already experienced instability, and I presume no instability at XMP setting, I would leave  it. Achieving stability at higher RAM frequency is also about tweaking timings. Personally, I wouldn't bother.

Even the XMP setting can be unstable sometimes too, especially at high CPU overclocks. The memory controllers capabilities have to be considered too. Sometimes you can overclock RAM highly and CPU less, or CPU highly and RAM less. Not always both. 

[martin-w 3,234]

24 minutes ago, vc10man said:

Ooops, my typos, yes XI.

When the i9-8086k came out I vaguely recall me asking about a suitable MoBo for that CPU, and I think,AFAIR, you had commented/recommended/suggested a Hero MoBo?

 

 

The Maximus  XI Hero wasn't available when the 8086K was released. (It's not an i9) I don't recall mentioning a Maximus X Hero but cant rule it out.