FMC with GTN

[samisahusky 13]

For the Carenado Saab 340 in P3Dv4.3:

 

So if I have the GTN installed, I can't use the FMC? None of the butons on the FMS are active when GTN installed. How does one go about setting fuel and payload without the FMC? There are options in P3Dv4 for fuel and payload, but these tend to be more time consuming because I have to calculate the fuel for each station from the total amount to be added, then add the fuel in, then do the same for each passenger section

 

if I disable the GNT being on the panel (but still available in the menu), the the FMS just sits on "Loading Data Base" and I've tried all the fixes Carenado suggested but they don't fix the issue.

 

I only need the FMC for inputting the fuel and payload. I use GTN for navigation.

Edited November 14, 2018 by samisahusky

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

What is the purpose of entering these values if you are not using the FMC in flight?  

ps.. are you using my GTN mod?

Edited November 14, 2018 by Bert Pieke

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

deleted

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Bert Pieke

[samisahusky 13]

To properly load the aircraft with the fuel and payload that was assigned at dispatch. Yes, it can be done in the P3Dv4 menu, but is more time consuming and requires conversions. With the FMC, you just type in the total fuel on board and select the line key and its done to the exact amount. Same with passengers and baggage/cargo. They can be evenly and accurately loaded easily with just typing in the value and selecting the corresponding line key ... As I said in my 1st post, this is the only reason I would want to use the FMC at all.

I am using the GTN 750 from Flight1 software. I don't know if that is "your" mod or not. I posted this here because Carenado suggests using this GTN but once it is installed, it apparently renders the FMC entirely non-operational.

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

As best I know, if you select the GTN750 option for this aircraft, the FMC is indeed inop.

I had a quick look, but have not found a way to reactivate it..

Maybe someone else..

 

[samisahusky 13]

That's what I was afraid of 😞 sad tho. Carenado should have a look at this. At least keep the fuel/payload options available. The GTN does not actually adjust fuel/payload so it has to be done manually the hard way if you spend the extra $ for the GTN. Kinda backwards I think - spend more and have systems become inop?

 

The other option is to have the GTN configured to the aircraft, but not installed into the dashboard. That will keep the FMC alive, but my FMC is stuck at "Loading Data Base" which is an issue with the FMC and NaviGraph data that I can't seem to get straightened out either. But that's for another topic.

[FDEdev 955]

On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 10:50 AM, samisahusky said:

To properly load the aircraft with the fuel and payload that was assigned at dispatch. Yes, it can be done in the P3Dv4 menu, but is more time consuming and requires conversions. With the FMC, you just type in the total fuel on board and select the line key and its done to the exact amount. Same with passengers and baggage/cargo. They can be evenly and accurately loaded easily with just typing in the value and selecting the corresponding line key

Time consuming?  There are only 2 fuel tanks and a single passenger and baggage section. Regardless of how many passengers you load, they will be evenly distributed automatically.

[samisahusky 13]

When your dispatcher tells you to load xx,xxxKG in fuel, 27pax who have baggage and cargo is x,xxxKG and you then need to convert that to LB to make it work in the P3D fuel/payload planner, then figure out how much can go where ... have you seen the Carenado setup for P3D default fuel/cargo loading? http://prntscr.com/ll7cq7

Steps for doing it Manually:

1) Get Kg from Dispatch.

2) Convert Kg to Lb

3) figure out what goes where (because you will ALWAYS end up with more than the "900Lbs MAX" for bag/cargo which involves calculations to ensure weight/balance.

Steps for doing it in the FMC:

1) Get Kg from Dispatch

2) Put weights in Kg from dispatch into the corresponding sections in the FMC. Done.

 

How is it NOT easier to do it in the FMC?!?! Time is money. I only get paid for wheels up, not to sit on the ground for 20 minutes doing conversions and calculations while my pax are waiting in the terminal 5 minutes before push back. Why should I have to do all these conversions when i paid for an aircraft that had a utility that I didn't have to do conversions for?

If I wanted a S340 without a FMC, I could have spent $17 on the Virtualcol Saab 340 and added the GTN onto it. Having an FMC in the aircraft is about 40% of why I would get that aircraft. I have never in my life spent over $100 for "compatible" software that having one installed rendered part of the other useless. It's a massive waste of both REAL time and REAL money. And as stated above, I can have both by not installing the GTN into the panel, but having it in the drop-down menu, but then the FMC just stays stuck on "Loading Data Base" anyway.

 

So I guess you are right, it is not important, because the more I think about this, the more frustrated with this product I get. At this point, if I get a flight assigned a Saab 340, I reject it and request dispatch to assign me a CRJ for that route instead. I don't even fly the S340 anymore because after all that money, only part of it will ever work. I feel like I went to the Mercedes car dealership and they told me "You can give us the money for the Mercedes, but you're really only going to be driving this Ford Pinto."

[scottb613 1,187]

Hi Steven,

Two rules of thumb for Carenado and Alebeo - avoid FMC's and Big Glass panels - they make some really nice aircraft - you just have to be choosy and do your due diligence before purchase... If you're not going to be happy with either the GNS or GTN for navigation - it's probably better to avoid it...

Regards,
Scott

Edited November 21, 2018 by scottb613

[FDEdev 955]

21 minutes ago, samisahusky said:

When your dispatcher tells you to load xx,xxxKG in fuel, 27pax who have baggage and cargo is x,xxxKG and you then need to convert that to LB to make it work in the P3D fuel/payload planner, then figure out how much can go where ... have you seen the Carenado setup for P3D default fuel/cargo loading? http://prntscr.com/ll7cq7

Steps for doing it Manually:

1) Get Kg from Dispatch.

2) Convert Kg to Lb

3) figure out what goes where (because you will ALWAYS end up with more than the "900Lbs MAX" for bag/cargo which involves calculations to ensure weight/balance.

Time is money. I only get paid for wheels up, not to sit on the ground for 20 minutes doing conversions and calculations while my pax are waiting in the terminal 5 minutes before push back. Why should I have to do all these conversions when i paid for an aircraft that had a utility that I didn't have to do conversions for?

I don't know why you need to convert kg into lb?  You wouldn't do that IRL either. If you know that dispatch is calculating in kg why don't you use kg in P3D?

Again, you don't need to know what goes where because there is only one cabin and one baggage compartment!  You can't screw up the loading. 

Why will you ALWAYS end up with more than 900lbs baggage/cargo?

Time is money? I wish I would get paid for playing P3D!

And your Mercedes/Ford comparison is rather weird. IF you want this comparison I'd rather say, you've got the Mercedes you wanted but the CD player is inop 😉

 

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by FDEdev

[samisahusky 13]

7 hours ago, FDEdev said:

I don't know why you need to convert kg into lb?  You wouldn't do that IRL either. If you know that dispatch is calculating in kg why don't you use kg in P3D?

Again, you don't need to know what goes where because there is only one cabin and one baggage compartment!  You can't screw up the loading. 

Why will you ALWAYS end up with more than 900lbs baggage/cargo?

Time is money? I wish I would get paid for playing P3D!

And your Mercedes/Ford comparison is rather weird. IF you want this comparison I'd rather say, you've got the Mercedes you wanted but the CD player is inop 😉

 

 

P3D doesn't do Kg for weight, at least not for me. it is either Lb or Gallons. That was an FMC option. See the screenshot in my last post where "Display fuel quantity as weight" is checked but displays in Lbs, but if unchecked, then it displays as Gallon which is far more complicated to convert since a gallon of fuel can weigh different depending on weather.

 

Working with the dispatchers, I created an Excel sheet that will do the conversions so that will save time. I love using the GTN for navigation because I can add "user" waypoints - because GTN doesn't get updated with NaviGraph data but everything else does, then the GTN is missing waypoints, but that doesn't matter since I can add them in.

 

And in answer to you question on why bag/cargo will always go overweight - The standard weight in Lbs for baggage PER PAX is 35Lbs. A Saab 340 holds 34 Pax, so 34x35=1190Lbs. That means I can only fill a MAX of 26 of the 34 seats before going overweight in the cargo hold. - https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/Weight Survey R20090095 Final.pdf (page 70) - that report actually shows 16.7Kg (36.81 converted to Lbs), but by averaging the weights, you would get an average weight of 17.36Kg (38.27 converted to Lbs). So by the report, I'm even more overweight than I am inputting. If we are to go with the weights from that report, then we can only fill at most 24 seats, or 10 people will need to watch their bags stay on the trucks as we push back, and that is not good for Business. And since I don't fly United jets, we don't kick passengers off. So I either have to take more pax without their bags to fill a flight and make money, force the pax to hold their bags (which is a violation of every airline and aviation agency in the world for a pax to hold their bags in their laps throughout the entire flight), or cut the amount of fuel carried for the flight which can and will lead to running out of fuel, or not having enough to meet reserve requirements set in place by FAA/ICAO/other aviation agencies.

Fortunately, I can exceed the 900Lbs max and out in the real value and it doesn't impact the weight and balance because I hardly ever do take a full pax load, but it is 90% of the time more than 25 pax.

(As an example, MMUN-MMHA plan has 24 adults and 1 child with baggage of 397Kg and cargo of 254Kg for a total cargo hold value of 651Kg. Fuel required including reserve/holds is 1274Kg. Now figure out the Pax weight (24x195=4680+80=4760Lbs for Pax weight, convert 651Kg to Lbs = 1435Lbs for Cargo/Bag weight, and convert fuel = 2809Lbs fuel. As you can see, I am overweight in the cargo hold, but well underweight in the pax cabin. Input all that into P3D and my ramp weight at loading/boarding is 27,334Lbs, 2000Lbs underweight - http://prntscr.com/lldxeo ). It works, but that would have been FAR faster to just plug the numbers into the FMC without having to figure out Pax weight, convert from Kg to Lbs, and then plug the numbers in.

[FDEdev 955]

25 minutes ago, samisahusky said:

1. P3D doesn't do Kg for weight, at least not for me. it is either Lb or Gallons.

2.Fortunately, I can exceed the 900Lbs max and out in the real value and it doesn't impact the weight and balance because I hardly ever do take a full pax load, but it is 90% of the time more than 25 Pax.

1. How about selecting 'Hybrid' in the P3D options? Then you get kg.

2. You can never exceed the 900lbs baggage limit in the baggage compartment!  But most of the time with these small compartments you are volume limited anyway.

 And welcome to the real world, if 36 Pax show up, each with a 35lb monster suitcase, then you, or more precisely the passengers, are out of luck.

When you start to taxi they will surprised to see that a whole bunch of suitcases, including their own of course, still sits on the apron.  

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by FDEdev