Told to descend during SID

[CKAJCA 1]

Hi Dave.

During a flight from EGGD Bristol to EGJJ Jersey I was given the following clearance. "Goldstar Seven Three Eight is cleared to Echo Golf Juliet Juliet, climb via the EXMO1Z departure , with the EXMOR transition , then as filed.  Expect departure runway Zero Nine.   Climb to Flight Level One Two Zero via the departure. Expect higher clearances Seven minutes after departure.  Squawk Four Five Six Five".

I was flying the PMDG 737 and had the FMC setup for an LNAV/RNAV departure to follow the SID. After departure I started the climb to the cleared FL120 but because of the altitude restriction of 6000 feet at EXMOR Pilot2Atc wanted me to descend down to 6000 feet with a speed less than 250 kts. Surely, if I am cleared to FL120 then Pilot2Atc should be aware of the 6000 feet altitude restriction at EXMOR and should not clear me to FL120 or it should not make me descend back down. I hope that all makes sense.

Regards Colin

 

[RobW05 2]

I think P2ATC is correct. If you are cleared to climb via a departure, you are expected to respect any restrictions which might apply for the specific departure.

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 864]

That is correct.  Once you pass the 6000 ft restricted waypoint in this case, you are expected to resume the climb to the next restricted altitude or the cleared FL120, whichever is lower.

The speed limits may be part of the departure, or it could be the general speed limit of 250 kts below 10,000 feet.

Dave

[ckyliu 1,749]

In real life, clearance to a higher flight level would override the restriction within the SID and "climb via X departure" isn't valid phraseology in Europe. It's quite normal to be cleared higher by the controller before you reach the altitude restriction, it's just there to prevent potential conflicts with arriving traffic.

Edited November 15, 2018 by ckyliu

[Dave_YVR 968]

 Negative, climb VIA the SID here is the key term. You must still meet all published speed and altitude restrictions on the departure procedure.

https://www.icao.int/airnavigation/sidstar/Documents/New SID n STAR Phraseologies Communication Leaflet v2.pdf

Edited November 15, 2018 by Dave_YVR

[CKAJCA 1]

If ATC want me to follow the SID routing but ignore any altitude restrictions then what phraseolgy would be used?

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 864]

Similar to a STAR, if you are told to "Fly the xxxxx departure" instead of "Climb via the xxxx departure", then you are being told to adhere only to the lateral navigation.

P2A does not currently use this.

[CKAJCA 1]

2 hours ago, Dave-Pilot2ATC said:

Similar to a STAR, if you are told to "Fly the xxxxx departure" instead of "Climb via the xxxx departure", then you are being told to adhere only to the lateral navigation.

P2A does not currently use this.

Thanks Dave

[itsjase 52]

On 11/17/2018 at 8:57 PM, CKAJCA said:

If ATC want me to follow the SID routing but ignore any altitude restrictions then what phraseolgy would be used?

They would say something like: DESCEND VIA STAR TO (level), CANCEL LEVEL RESTRICTION(S) AT (point(s))