Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Noel

What are the big missing features in XP11.x v P3D 4.x now?

Recommended Posts

Just now, FDEdev said:

+17000hrs RW flying.

Then I find it hard to believe you think ESP has better flight dynamics, and crosswind simulation. Because it's really absent there.


---

MSFS | DCS | X-plane 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can of course believe whatever you want. I simply don't agree with most of your complaints concerning FSX/P3D (and your opinion about RW xwnd operation)

Edited by FDEdev

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Blade element theory ... ha, if it's not String Theory, I'm going home ... 

Neither of these simulated platforms are perfect, they are after-all trying to converting 3D space into 2D space (monitor is X and Y, there is no Z, not even with VR) within the limits of today's hardware.  I don't know how many pilots are mathematicians and/or computer scientists but ...

Interesting read on XP11 physics from developers of XP11 aircraft: 

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/139815-x-planes-weak-flight-dynamics-model/

My personal experience with XP11 physics is sometimes it's very good, but sometimes it's just so far off as to be unusable ... specifically when there is significant weather.  It's interesting that people do sell XP11 based on "physics" ... having a degree in computer science and mathematics and understanding what is needed to simulate a "true physics" model incorporating world environment on a object (aircraft) we simply don't have the computing power so huge compromises are made in flight simulators (all of them) - LR, LM, Microsoft developers all very well aware of the compromises.

What I've done is tried to make the best of it on both platforms and to NOT compare to real world.

Cheers, Rob.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

( just saw Robin's post just above, with which I fully agree. )

 

Honestly, it's a mix...

You get aspects better represented in FSX, other in XP. I'd say some types of turbulence  are overall better represented in X-Plane, specially if tuned down from the default multipliers, while the wind shear effects are too abrupt, specially above the boundary layer. 

Proper fine tuning can get more acceptable outcomes from the winds / turbulence in X-Plane. 

In terms of ground physics, and considering taxiing, taking off and landing ( while in contact with the ground, and referring only to the effects of wind! ) I prefer FSX.

Ground physics aren't still there, in X-Plane, but at least they're being updated, and Austin is actively working in various fronts. We can hope that it converges towards a better outcome already during the XP11 series.

A good Weather Injector can also do good things for these effects!

 

 

Edited by jcomm

Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Glider pilot since October 1980...

Avid simmer since 1992...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, FDEdev said:

You can of course believe whatever you want. I simply don't agree with most of your complaints concerning FSX/P3D (and your opinion about RW xwnd operation)

That's perfectly fine. There's also plenty of other issues with the ESP platform when it comes to engines and friction that is simulated very poorly. Turboprop and piston engines being among them.


---

MSFS | DCS | X-plane 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's too bad we can't combine the best of both.  I find myself going back and forth between sims.  And each session, I wish I had the things I like about the other one in the current one I'm flying.

If P3D had the scenery system that XP had, I think I'd be in heaven.  Then, give P3D the lighting/PBR of XP and we're done.

For XP, a good weather add on is needed.  Maybe once ActiveSky gets there, this will be solved.  Of course, we need the level of detailed aircraft that we have in P3D.  There are only a handful that are really good in XP.  But none can still match what we have in P3D.


Regards,

 

Kevin LaMal

"Facts Don't Care About Your Feelings" - Shapiro2024

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FDEdev said:

+17000hrs RW flying.

Holy cow thats a lot of hours? Military, airlines? I gave up after a few hundred hours after looking at my bank account 😞 The default 172 flies crosswinds beautifully now! I just landed in SB with a 25 knot crosswind in the sim! Maybe too unrealistic? I wouldn't even considered landing in those conditions in the real-thing, at least not with my experience and somebody else plane. I remember parking my rental after a windy day of flying and when the airplane started rotating on it's own on the ramp🙄😣 


AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 6800XT, Ram - 32GB, 32" 4K Monitor, WIN 11, XP-12 !

Eric Escobar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not have P3D anymore. My focus is on XP11. I hope it will advance in features over time.

This is an X-Plane forum so, I can't see muddling it up with P3D.

  • Like 2

Jim Morgan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, strider1 said:

Holy cow thats a lot of hours? Military, airlines? I gave up after a few hundred hours after looking at my bank account 😞

About 90% airlines, a bit military and a tiny bit GA etc...that's the beauty when you get paid for flying, the bank account doesn't suffer 😉

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, NorwegianAviator said:

The crosswind simulation is not perfect in XP, I agree on that. But at least it's being simulated. The wheels on the airplane also follows the ground in XP, and not train tracks as soon as the wind picks up. Regarding real life flying. I spoke to an ATR pilot a couple of weeks ago, he told me the ATR was absolutely terrible in crosswind, and a real nightmare. Wind correction was crucial, otherwise the plane could tip over. I cannot personally comment on that since I've never flown an ATR. A Dash 8 however, can easily handle a 45kt crosswind, if not more, regardless of it's crosswind limitation of 35kt. A B747 has a crosswind limitation of only 30kt (25kt for autoland), so size does not really matter here (so no wonder it will struggle in a 45kt crosswind). This also largely depends on the terrain and type of wind conditions as well. Add some gusty winds in some mountainous areas, and I can guarantee you won't be able to land the plane nice and safely. It's suddenly the plane flying you. Try taking off a C172 in real life in 10-12 knots crosswind. Without wind correction I can almost guarantee you will be up for a little surprise. Same thing with landing.

My point here is, while the crosswind and turbulence simulation is not perfect in XP. It's completely lacking in P3D, and you can put down a C172 with a 40 degree crab angle on the runway and the plane will just continue straight ahead with a 40 degree angle down the runway until it stops. You can probably land it with 50kt crosswind too, haven't tried that. Not much realism in that. Being a real pilot, I know what I prefer, and it certainly isn't P3D's ways of doing things. But you are absolutely right about the exaggerated crosswind and turbulence simulation in XP (especially turbulence). Not sure if the crosswind in XP is a problem with the way the sim handles it, or if the problem is the airplane not being coded properly.

I agree that in Xplane ground handling in crosswinds is more realistic, at least to me and I compare it to real life training I received in light sport, even in trikes.  That said I have not played around with taildraggers much in Xplane.  As far as P3D is concerned I fly in light, variable winds and as long as I am ready with some rudder I am OK tracking the centerline on landings and take off.  I do not fly in anything much over 10knots crosswind component, as in real life Light Sport, we stayed grounded if we had over a ten knot crosswind component, same was true in trikes although I got caught in a trike landing once in 25 knot crosswinds that came up out of nowhere during our flight.  Scared my CFI to death but in the air he felt it was a great opportunity to practice S turns in the trike, and he said I handled the strong, gusty winds well, or as well as could be expected.  He said he was relieved I was with him that day to help control the trike on landing, as it took two pairs of arms to steady it in the gusting winds, until we fell in the shadow of a hill paralleling the runway, which was only 50 feet wide and 1000 feet long.

John

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/18/2018 at 2:48 PM, pracines said:

It would certainly take a 33,000 page book to describe all that is missing in both sims. When it comes down to it, when one "big" thing is added, another "big" thing is needed.

Not worth the effort to calculate/discuss/debate this for at least another 50 years, we all know what is lacking. Maybe in 50 years we can all be satisfied with all the "big" things that we have, maybe not. 

 

Wow, I'll be 117 years old.😩


Regards

 

Lamar Wright

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/19/2018 at 12:45 PM, Noel said:

Well, thanks for the interesting replies.  My sense after seeing all of this, on an XP forum no less, is that it makes most sense for me to stay w/ P3D for the foreseeable future.  

Cheers

Hi Noel,

If you are still in Paradise, CA I hope you are doing well and your family is safe.

I think it's a wise decision for you to stick with P3D v4 and wait to see what happens in future versions of P3D & XP. Like you, I chose to stick with P3D v4. In another thread I wrote:

1) I bought my copy of XP11 digitally when it was released to support the platform. I now need an internet connection to run it. What a joke!

2) On my computer, XP 11 takes a long time to load (even with default textures.) I tried FL ortho and it took forever to load. Even with ortho I still noticed blurry textures and many times the sim just CTD.

3) Still today, NO default seasonal variations.

4) In the latest version, I noticed that the textures did not extend to the horizon. What happened there?

5) The GA planes I sim with (payware) do not behave realistically at all. This has been a problem since XP10. Even though most say that XP 11 FDs are more realistic than P3D, I have not had that experience with my system.

6) Sounds are absolutely awful!

7) Aircraft ground traction is unrealistic on my system!

😎 The weather needs to be revamped! I experienced abrupt weather changes, ugly poor performing clouds, and unrealistic wind shifts. Just bad!

9) AI traffic needs improvement.

10) ATC needs improvement.

The other disconcerting thing about the XP 11 platform is that downloading free addons from the xp dot org forum was time consuming. The site is slow. Plus, the best addons are sold by a particular seller that I have no interest in buying from them again.

  • Like 1

A pilot is always learning and I LOVE to learn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/19/2018 at 2:06 PM, klamal said:

It's too bad we can't combine the best of both.  I find myself going back and forth between sims.  And each session, I wish I had the things I like about the other one in the current one I'm flying.

If P3D had the scenery system that XP had, I think I'd be in heaven.  Then, give P3D the lighting/PBR of XP and we're done.

For XP, a good weather add on is needed.  Maybe once ActiveSky gets there, this will be solved.  Of course, we need the level of detailed aircraft that we have in P3D.  There are only a handful that are really good in XP.  But none can still match what we have in P3D.

I also went back and forth between the 2 sims, but I recently uninstalled P3D (along with tons of addons) for good and decided to stick with X-plane.

Both have their advantages / disadvantages, but I just don't see P3D progressing much further to overcome its longstanding issues, the chaotic update routine just didn't seem worth it for minor improvements, and there is a chance that LM could charge for the next somewhat major update (you know, when the avatar walking around a flattened world became so crucial to the overall flight experience) .

I think that X-plane has a little more to give over the next few years, but the flight sim arena (IMO) as a whole is pretty stagnant. However, no matter how slow the pace of advancement and the lacking of features, I think that X-plane gives a better all around experience for my GA and Heli flying needs. And despite its many critics, I think that xEnviro coupled with the 3D ground presents a pretty good plausible world to fly in, especially for Helis 

With all of that said, the biggest feature wish for me is a better representation of the larger and coastline cities (much like what they did for Chicago and Vegas), a bigger LOD for objects and lights, and a better AA implementation / possible Nvidia setting enhancements.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, FlyBaby said:

but the flight sim arena (IMO) as a whole is pretty stagnant.

Hi Folks,

LOL - without picking a side - I strongly disagree with this statement... We've never had it so good...

Regards,
Scott

  • Like 1

imageproxy.png.c7210bb70e999d98cfd3e77d7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...