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HiFlyer

Deleted thread.....

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Deleting threads because there MIGHT be risk of it POSSIBLY "going south" has become the norm here I'm afraid. I had a thread deleted for exactly the same reason. I use to love Avsim. It was my second home. Now sadly, it's just a tool I use.

I said it before, and I'm ot afraid to say it again, Tom would hate it!

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There we see it again, ragging on Avsim because of what is in nature a political schism in the USA , the mere mention of the name of the last two Presidents brings civilized discourse to a dead stop . Its more than discouraging to watch happen with such regularity .

I for one am ready to see these names in our forbidden list as they cant seemingly be used without ranchor as the consequence.

 

Best CJ

 

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the mere mention of the name of the last two Presidents brings civilized discourse to a dead stop

 

With respect... that didn't happen. Nothing happened. A certain presidents name was mentioned and there was no response regarding this from anyone  at all, all was well... then the thread was deleted. It was "shoot first and ask questions later". Thus an interesting thread was removed despite no bad behaviour after several further replies. 

Again... the offending sentence could have been removed, the poster informed, and the thread remains. 

 

 

Edited by martin-w
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8 minutes ago, Chuck_Jodry-VJPL said:

There we see it again, ragging on Avsim because of what is in nature a political schism in the USA , the mere mention of the name of the last two Presidents brings civilized discourse to a dead stop . Its more than discouraging to watch happen with such regularity .

I for one am ready to see these names in our forbidden list as they cant seemingly be used without ranchor as the consequence.

 

Best CJ

 

And i believe the "ragging" as you put it will only continue to rise while such Draconian moderation is implemented.

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33 minutes ago, Chuck_Jodry-VJPL said:

There we see it again, ragging on Avsim because of what is in nature a political schism in the USA , the mere mention of the name of the last two Presidents brings civilized discourse to a dead stop . Its more than discouraging to watch happen with such regularity .

I for one am ready to see these names in our forbidden list as they cant seemingly be used without ranchor as the consequence.

 

Best CJ

 

+1

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52 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Again... the offending sentence could have been removed, the poster informed, and the thread remains.

We do not edit or delete a post.  We may remove a link, embed something, but we do not edit your comments in any way.  If it is offensive, abusive, trolling/inciting, or otherwise violates the AVSIM Terms of Service such as a copyright, porno, or piracy, then we will remove the post or thread.  No reason for our membership to see your anger and offensive comments.  Please abide by the AVSIM Terms of Service when posting under the rules and policies tab.  Those are the same rules developed by Tom and past members of the staff (I had no say whatsoever in the ToS).  We cannot tell you exactly how to write anything and stay within the framework of the AVSIM ToS as I believe everyone is intelligent enough to understand the rules of conduct in any forum.  Instead of being offensive and posting a new thread when one of our moderators does something you do not appreciate and you are totally ready to destroy something because of his/her action, send me a PM and we can discuss.

1 hour ago, Dougal said:

Deleting threads because there MIGHT be risk of it POSSIBLY "going south" has become the norm here I'm afraid. I had a thread deleted for exactly the same reason. I use to love Avsim. It was my second home. Now sadly, it's just a tool I use.

I said it before, and I'm ot afraid to say it again, Tom would hate it!

 

1 hour ago, Dougal said:

And i believe the "ragging" as you put it will only continue to rise while such Draconian moderation is implemented.

@dougal:  Phil, that is about as abusive as anyone can get - name calling with "Draconian moderation".  Yes, you hit me square in the chest and heart.  I have been publicly shamed.  I remember when you were undergoing some major life-threatening surgery and I wished you well.  The AVSIM Staff and other members of the community did the same.  You were asking for our thoughts and prayers and we gave them to you.  I think it might have helped.  Is this what AVSIM Staff gets for trying to be kind and considerate to our members?  You have been very abusive to me and the AVSIM moderators from Day 1 when you first joined AVSIM (not just to the current team).  I am telling you this publicly as you are very public when you decide to bash the AVSIM Staff.  As Tom would say, "please do not do this again".  You are definitely the leader of the community that causes a topic to "go South".


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Instead of being offensive and posting a new thread when one of our moderators does something you do not appreciate and you are totally ready to destroy something because of his/her action, send me a PM and we can discuss.

 

Huh... me? I haven't been offensive and didn't start a new thread. Someone else started the thread.

P.S. Phil's use of the word "Draconian simply means harsh, severe. 🙂

 

 

Edited by martin-w

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The general public doesn't understand forum moderation, it's one of those things that until you've done it for a few years, you just don't fully understand the complexities.  I thought I did before I started moderating, and I changed my attitude after a few years of doing so. 

That said, the public certainly has the right to complain or call something out, and I'll be the first to admit that I've made moderation mistakes and I probably will again because I'm human.  But in this case, I have to agree with the removal of the thread as a preemptive measure.  I do not believe it was presumptive, especially given the nature of both our hobby (very assertive people, not a lot of respect for others opinion overall) and the venue.

Given that our hobby has really smart people in it, but also more than our fair share of Type-As, moderation and associated premptive measure is truly warranted.  Believe me, I deal with it all the time.

As moderators gain experience, they can help curb things before the become issues in the forums and the long term affect of this is to make a venue more friendly or at least less adversarial. 

Best wishes to all!

 

 


Dave Hodges

 

System Specs:  I9-13900KF, NVIDIA 4070TI, Quest 3, Multiple Displays, Lots of TERRIFIC friends, 3 cats, and a wonderfully stubborn wife.

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8 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

The general public doesn't understand forum moderation, it's one of those things that until you've done it for a few years, you just don't fully understand the complexities. 

 

 

 

I do. I was a moderator over at Just Flight for many years. Still am but not currently active. It's not easy being a moderator that's for sure. My approach and that of JF admin and other mods was... if we were dealing with a single word in an otherwise harmless thread we would edit it, then inform the poster. That way a thread that was of great interest would remain and all was well.

 

It's up to Avsim to decide what they want to do here of course, that is their right. But I fully understand the dismay of the OP and the opinion that there was a better way. I mean he wasn't even informed what had gone on until he started a new thread. 

 

Edited by martin-w

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From time to time I visit a brand-specific automobile message board. It had an off-topic section which eventually got overrun with political, religious and offensive posts. The moderators couldn't keep up with it so they instituted a rule that to post in that off-topic section you had to have a minimum of 50 car-related posts. Even that didn't work as then about 10 individuals kept harping on the same stupid issues. Then the moderators closed the off-topic section and guess what, those 10 people left to infest some other online venue.

The point of this is that you want to post something anonymously that has nothing to do with the general theme of a message board, instead go to a place that is specific to political, religious or offensive topics. There are plenty of those on the web.

There is no assurance of free speech on a privately run medium.

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4 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

I do. I was a moderator over at Just Flight for many years. Still am but not currently active. It's not easy being a moderator that's for sure. My approach and that of JF admin and other mods was... if we were dealing with a single word in an otherwise harmless thread we would edit it, then inform the poster. That way a thread that was of great interest would remain and all was well.

 

It's up to Avsim to decide what they want to do hear of course, that is there right. But I fully understand the dismay oif the OP and the opinion that there was a better way. I mean he wasn't even informed what had gone on until he started a new thread. 

 

I agree, I always leave a note "Edited by Staff" when I have to edit a post.  I sometimes add "to remove inappropriate language, etc. if the situation calls for it.

Sometimes I send a PM if I've removed a post from public view, again it just depends on the situation.

Just now, costamesa said:

OP could be asked to edit his post and the topic could be suspended until he edited.

See, Moderators often work full time jobs, and when there is a lot of activity on the boards they have to deal with, sometimes when you're tired or have limited time it's much faster to do it yourself.  Plus forum users often only visit the forums once a week or so... and moderators aren't going to check on how often someone visits as that takes time as well and then you're only left with a guess.  If something needs to be changed, best to do it right then and there and move on to the next issue.

 

 

Best wishes!

 

 


Dave Hodges

 

System Specs:  I9-13900KF, NVIDIA 4070TI, Quest 3, Multiple Displays, Lots of TERRIFIC friends, 3 cats, and a wonderfully stubborn wife.

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Perhaps, rather than getting into this where everyone explains their position; which both sides has already commented on,  HiFlyer can re-post the item he originally posted, minus the disputed name, and we can benefit from learning of the device.

 

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2 minutes ago, DaveCT2003 said:

I agree, I always leave a note "Edited by Staff" when I have to edit a post.  I sometimes add "to remove inappropriate language, etc. if the situation calls for it.

Sometimes I send a PM if I've removed a post from public view, again it just depends on the situation.

Best wishes!

 

Yep, that was my approach and that of other mods on JF Dave. 

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Just to chime in (as one of the Type-A, opinionated, and oppositional personalities we have noted), the moderation at AVSIM to my occasional outsize comments or language has been regular and well done. In every case, I took no personal grief with the way I was corrected nor with the overall result (guess I have grown accustomed to social guidance over the years 🙂 ). 

The original deleted thread is a very nuanced example of needed moderation. Perhaps there is a place for a moderator to edit a post and send a PM? If that causes an issue with the original poster, more guidance may be required but most Type-A, opinionated, and oppositional personalities can take it (or leave).

Anyway, +1 to all the moderators out there. Tough job, appreciate all you do.

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