ols500

8GB of RAM Does that mean 8GB of VAS?

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Hi i am moving to p3d v4 with my:

 

PC Specs I5 8600K @4.7Ghz

GTX 1060 6GB

8GB RAM

128GB SSD

2TB HHD

 

I know P3D v4 is 64 bit so it stops OOMS. On the website, it says I need 16GBs? 16 ******* that's a lot! Is this true or can I run fine? Do be aware I have put up with FSX for years so if I get the occasional stutter I wouldn't care. 

Thanks Ollie.

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1 hour ago, ols500 said:

Hi i am moving to p3d v4 with my:

 

PC Specs I5 8600K @4.7Ghz

GTX 1060 6GB

8GB RAM

128GB SSD

2TB HHD

 

I know P3D v4 is 64 bit so it stops OOMS. On the website, it says I need 16GBs? 16 ******* that's a lot! Is this true or can I run fine? Do be aware I have put up with FSX for years so if I get the occasional stutter I wouldn't care. 

Thanks Ollie.

 

Per the LM website, 16 GB is only the *recommended* memory amount.   4GB is the mininum.

16 GB is not a lot anymore!  Your typical FS rig, game machine, or Photo editing rig will have that much these days.  Heck a photo ed rig could do well to have 32 GB.

Your 8 GB doesn't mean you'll have all 8 physical gigs avail to the sim.  The OS and other running processes will use some of that.  And Win10 or 7 or whatever you're using can still page out to virtual mem if it runs out of physical mem.

Finally, just because P3D is now 64-bit doesn't mean it stops OOMS.  It just reduces their liklihood.

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5 minutes ago, Mace said:

Finally, just because P3D is now 64-bit doesn't mean it stops OOMS.  It just reduces their liklihood.

I myself got one recently. Could not believe it, and I have 32 GB of RAM. Turned out it seemed to be memory leak in a scenery layer, hopefully for the normal operations it is enough (for now).

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To answer your topic title, 8GB of RAM are the memory modules sitting on your MB.  Virtual address space (VAS) is what Microsoft Windows gives you IF you have a 64 bit application like P3DV4 or higher AND a 64-bit OS.  The 32-bit applications, like FSX, could operate in a 64-bit OS but the amount of VAS was much different.  32-bit applications only get up to 4GB's of VAS (and it doesn't give you all of it constantly during a flight but fluctuates depending on the scenario).  That 4GB's of VAS is not your virtual memory or page file but VAS.  When the application runs out of VAS, it crashes with an out of memory (OOM) error.  FSX cannot use up VAS even with the settings set to max if running with default aircraft/scenery.  It is only when you add a non-default aircraft with HD textures and/or scenery that you'll see an OOM depending on your settings.

P3DV4, a 64-bit application, running on a 64-bit OS, gets around 7TB's of VAS.  The chance of an OOM because of the lack of VAS is impossible because only P3D and any add-ons to P3D are running.  VAS is per application and not everything running on your computer is using the P3D allocated VAS.  Running other applications uses its own VAS.

I have seen a lot of crashes when one tries to set up their own page file.  The Windows default is system managed but many change this as they have tons of RAM.  I have found that this does not work very well with P3D/FSX and the many add-ons that might be employed during a session.  It is best to always leave this as system managed size.  Back in the old day this was a tweak many employed for performance.

In my experiences, the amount of RAM required for P3D has never exceeded 8GB's but, if you have a lot of addons running and your settings are high, then it may occasionally exceed 8GB's.  I'm pretty conservative on my settings and the amount of add-ons I have running during a session.  I use AIDA64Extreme to monitor RAM utilization.  I haven't use it for a while but in the past it had a hard time getting to 8GB's.  I'll have to monitor during one of my next flight sessions.  I think 16GB's is more than sufficient but that's just me. 

Best regards,

Jim

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Thanks to everyone, now i understand that i should be ok with my 8GB's of ram.

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RAM   VAS.

RAM is the fast memory modules in a computer (Random Access Memory) that are used to place things that are currently being used/worked on (after they've been pulled from long term storage like a hard drive or SSD and perhaps had some calculation done on them).

VAS is Virtual Address Space. This will include RAM + VRAM (graphics card memory) + page file (part of the HDD or SSD that is assigned as RAM overflow). A 32 bit application is limited to 4 GB of VAS, because that's the maximum amount of memory you can address with a 32 bit number (think of it like a phone book. 32 bit limits how many pages the phonebook has, so even if you have many more phone numbers available to use, you cannot fit them in the phonebook).

As Jim said, whilst your system may have 8 GB of RAM, at least 3 GB will probably be occupied by the operating system and background processes. Once the RAM (and/or VRAM) is full then the system will fall back on to the page file that lives on the SSD/HDD which is much slower than RAM and can cause stutters and blurries in the simulator. 8 GB RAM is okay, but if building a new system I would leave spare slots so you can upgrade to 16 GB because once you start chucking addons and pushing sliders right on P3D you will likely need to use that additional RAM.

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So with all of that said, would I actually need another 1x8 GB stick of RAM to use P3D. It's £57 so I really want to know if it's worth it. I could spend £57 on RAM or the Airbus Professional... So I want to make sure.

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1 hour ago, ols500 said:

So with all of that said, would I actually need another 1x8 GB stick of RAM to use P3D. It's £57 so I really want to know if it's worth it. I could spend £57 on RAM or the Airbus Professional... So I want to make sure.

The last thing you want to do is add a single 8GB DIMM to your PC--your CPU is dual-channel, so your RAM config must consist of paired modules to keep working in dual-channel mode.  If you add just one, you force your system into single-channel mode.  So if you want to move to 16GB, you have two choices--add two 4GB modules to the 2x4GB you already have, or replace the 2x4GB with 2x8GB.  Adding an unmatched pair of DIMMs to your existing memory is potentially problematic, though, as things can get tricky if the installed DIMMs do not all use the same ICs with the same capacity and timings.  There's a chance you'll have to get into the BIOS and do a bunch of work to adjust your timings for a four-module config.  Replacing your RAM with 2x8GB is the best/easiest option for this reason.

All that said, you can load up P3D on your system as-is and decide for yourself whether you're running into a wall on memory space with 8GB.  If you decide you need more, then replacing your RAM is one of the easiest hardware mods there is.

Regards

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If you currently have 2X4 GB RAM sticks installed, I would suggest leaving it alone.

That is what I personally have installed and it does the job just fine.

If you ever want to go to 16 GB, rip out the 4 GB modules and install 2X8 GB RAM sticks (the faster the better).

Edited by Bert Pieke
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There's no harm in trying it with 2x4GB sticks for now, and then if P3D is getting memory hungry adding another pair (so total 4x4GB sticks). That's exactly how I upgraded my system, the pairs are not identical but I've had no issues with that. If it's happy enough on 2x4GB then you can spend the money on the Airbus 😀

Of course, all the above presumes your motherboard has four RAM slots, if it's a microATX you probably only have two and then you may just want to start with 2x8GB.

It's difficult to say if you will need 16GB from the start because everyone has different addons and VRAM which complicates matters. And obviously the processor and GPU dicate how far right you can have the sliders, which affects RAM usage.

Edited by ckyliu

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I have 1x8 Sitck of 8GB 3000Mhz RAM. So could i add the same stick of 1x8 to bring it up to 16GB?

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Yes, try get a stick of the same size, CL timings and MHz. Ideally from the same manufacturer but doesn't have to be. Then you should get dual channel RAM operation which will improve performance in addition to the extra size.

Edited by ckyliu

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Ok thanks, I will purchase that stick.

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in my RAM slots I have 2 grey slots and 2 black slots. My RAM is in the grey slot, for dual operation should i put the new stick in the other grey slot.

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7 minutes ago, ols500 said:

in my RAM slots I have 2 grey slots and 2 black slots. My RAM is in the grey slot, for dual operation should i put the new stick in the other grey slot.

Likely yes, but your motherboard manual will tell you.

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On 11/20/2018 at 8:16 PM, Jim Young said:

In my experiences, the amount of RAM required for P3D has never exceeded 8GB's but, if you have a lot of addons running and your settings are high, then it may occasionally exceed 8GB's.  I'm pretty conservative on my settings and the amount of add-ons I have running during a session.  I use AIDA64Extreme to monitor RAM utilization.  I haven't use it for a while but in the past it had a hard time getting to 8GB's.  I'll have to monitor during one of my next flight sessions.  I think 16GB's is more than sufficient but that's just me. 

Did a flight in the PMDG 787-8 from FlightBeam KSFO to Drezewski's KSEA with Active Sky for P3DV4 and ProATC.  I also had MSE NoCal, Oregon, and Wash State enabled.  I never saw the RAM utilization over 8GB but it came close at 47%.  Just an update from my earlier comments.

Memory_Util.thumb.png.b7b5146a1cdf8b015882b2dd672e44ac.png

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3 hours ago, Jim Young said:

Did a flight in the PMDG 787-8 from FlightBeam KSFO to Drezewski's KSEA with Active Sky for P3DV4 and ProATC.  I also had MSE NoCal, Oregon, and Wash State enabled.  I never saw the RAM utilization over 8GB but it came close at 47%.  Just an update from my earlier comments.

Memory_Util.thumb.png.b7b5146a1cdf8b015882b2dd672e44ac.png

Talking about Physical Memory, alright, but what about the Virtual Memory? It says more than 13 GB are used, so I'm not sure what would happen if you totally disable the virtual memory and rely only on physical RAM.

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2 hours ago, Wanthuyr Filho said:

Talking about Physical Memory, alright, but what about the Virtual Memory? It says more than 13 GB are used, so I'm not sure what would happen if you totally disable the virtual memory and rely only on physical RAM.

.. and why would you do that?  :unsure:

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2 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

.. and why would you do that?  :unsure:

(1) To know the real usage
(2) Because I have enough physical - 32 GB 🙂

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8 hours ago, Wanthuyr Filho said:

(1) To know the real usage
(2) Because I have enough physical - 32 GB 🙂

Never a good idea..  :smile:

Edited by Bert Pieke

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5 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

Never a good idea..  :smile:

As an example, Photoshop (along with other software) will not run without a swap file.

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2 hours ago, pgde said:

As an example, Photoshop (along with other software) will not run without a swap file.

It works fine here since my PC is only for Flight Simulation.

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Because it doesn't look right saying that 8 GB is enough having hundreds and hundreds of swap gigabytes available. Even less might be in this case, but to what performance compromise?

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2 hours ago, Wanthuyr Filho said:

It works fine here since my PC is only for Flight Simulation.

Disabling Virtual Memory would cause memory conflicts with data transfers in the system memory. Virtual Memory/paging file is also used to protect data valuable to system operations. Virtual Memory is hardcoded into the operating system since its connected to kernel operations, so it can not be fully disabled. It’s best advised to let the operating system manage this automatically. You would not see any performance gains anyway.

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