Falcon 50 - STOL Performance

[scottb613 1,186]

Hi Folks,

Just curious on the STOL like performance on this aircraft - with flaps and brakes out - we seem capable of flying some insanely steep approaches for a jet... I remember someone stating it had excellent performance during the development process - is this what they were talking about ?

Regards,
Scott

[FDEdev 955]

Flaps and speed brakes out at the same time?  That's a no-go with most jets, especially during landing, including the Falcon 50.

In the AFM  section ABNORMAL procedures you will see that the approach speed needs to be increased by 20kts and the landing field lenght increases by 800ft. 

The LIMITATIONS section says:  No airbrake extension below 500ft AGL.

Edited November 21, 2018 by FDEdev

[scottb613 1,186]

6 minutes ago, FDEdev said:

Flaps and speed brakes out at the same time?  That's a no-go with most jets, especially for landing, including the Falcon 50.

In the AFM  section ABNORMAL procedures you will see that the approach speed needs to be increased by 20kts and the landing field lenght increases by 800ft. 

Hi FDE,

Hah - oops - LOL - ok - keep that in mind - somebody send me to Flight Safety... Even with just flaps - this is a get into - get out of short fields with ease - bird - no ?

Thanks for the tip...

Regards,
Scott 

[FDEdev 955]

The problem with most airplanes isn't getting into an airport but getting out!  I really hope that Flysimware will provide the necessary performance data.

The Falcon 50 isn't exactly slow on approach. Even at minimum weight the approach speed is 104kts, that's only 2kts slower than an A319!

What is really special about the Falcon 50 is its ability to operate from unpaved surfaces (if the weight is below 33000lbs) 

[Chock 17,769]

Dassault is kind of noted for making somewhat 'hot' aeroplanes, not always the wisest of traits on occasion, but it is something which makes the Falcon jets somewhat on the sprightly side of things even if its makers might not recommend flying them in such a way on a regular basis.

Dassault were well known of course, for making the legendary Mirage, but unfortunately for them, they took a lot of the philosophy of what goes into a making a great military aircraft and put it in their Mystere airliner, resulting in it not being a commercial success, even if it was an airliner which could (and did) regularly drop at over 6,000 fpm from the TOD thanks to its fighter-like aerodynamics and fuel capacity lol. So it's not surprising to find some of that philosophy slipping into the Falcon range as well.

Here's a cool video of a Falcon 8X showing off some of that Dassault groovy handling...

 

[scottb613 1,186]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the additional info - and great video - seems they improved the lines a bit with the newer models - that's one graceful looking bird...

Regards,
Scott

[Wink207 78]

We are going to have some fun with this bird....thank you FSW!!!!

[RyInTheSky 22]

The Falcon 50 and the Falcon family by far has amazing performance. It is not unusual to fly a 50 or 900B under Part 91 rules into 4000 foot runways. The 50 is also certified to land on unimproved surfaces as well.  

[scianoir 610]

The STOL performance, certainly on landing, is very impressive but am I correct that there seems to be no way to arm the spoilers so that they automatically deploy on touchdown?

Bill

[JRBarrett 3,034]

42 minutes ago, scianoir said:

The STOL performance, certainly on landing, is very impressive but am I correct that there seems to be no way to arm the spoilers so that they automatically deploy on touchdown?

Bill

The real Falcon 50 does not have auto spoilers. On touchdown, the pilot has to reach down and pull the air brake handle to the second notch manually.

[FDEdev 955]

10 hours ago, RyInTheSky said:

The Falcon 50 and the Falcon family by far has amazing performance. It is not unusual to fly a 50 or 900B under Part 91 rules into 4000 foot runways. The 50 is also certified to land on unimproved surfaces as well.  

4000ft isn't exactly amazing since you need to reduce the MTOM below 36000lbs if you want to get out of a 4000ft strip again (calculated without any reserves).

If we start to use reduced weights for comparison, then e.g. an A319 is amazing with a landing distance of less than 2700ft.

 

[Holdit 551]

14 hours ago, Chock said:

Dassault is kind of noted for making somewhat 'hot' aeroplanes, not always the wisest of traits on occasion, but it is something which makes the Falcon jets somewhat on the sprightly side of things even if its makers might not recommend flying them in such a way on a regular basis.

 

 

While it's definitely a nice nippy jet, I don't find it hot at all on approach and it seems happy to dump altitude by the bucket load when I put out one notch of flaps with the wheels down. So much so that I find myself retracting flaps and adding power in order to make the runway.

That said, I don't normally do much jet flying, so a lot of that could be bad planning on my part, but I haven't yet found "coming in hot" to be a problem. 🙂

 

 

[FDEdev 955]

33 minutes ago, Holdit said:

While it's definitely a nice nippy jet, I don't find it hot at all on approach and it seems happy to dump altitude by the bucket load when I put out one notch of flaps with the wheels down. So much so that I find myself retracting flaps and adding power in order to make the runway.

Don't know how at what IAS you are descending, but the first stage of flaps extends only the slats, and since V_{FE slats}  is only 200kias this configuration shouldn't result in excessive drag.

Edited November 22, 2018 by FDEdev

[Chock 17,769]

This 50 seems to need a fair bit of power on when coming in with big flap settings in order to keep the speed on and not undershoot or land heavy, but it does seem to stop pretty quickly once you've got it down.

Having said that, I stuffed up the fuel load on one flight and completely ran out of gas about 40 miles from my destination, but I was able to get it onto my destination runway anyway with a bit of staying high and some S curves leading to a steep approach in and a bit of a 'bottom of the rollercoaster flare' coming over the numbers. Fortunately that sort of gliding energy management malarkey is a thing I've done a lot of in real life with sailplanes, so I found it wasn't too difficult at all.

It's really fun to fly and to anyone who is considering getting it, I'd say go for it, it's well on par with their other stuff even in this early release state.

[scianoir 610]

9 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

The real Falcon 50 does not have auto spoilers. On touchdown, the pilot has to reach down and pull the air brake handle to the second notch manually.

I wasn’t aware that the real Falcon wasn’t fitted with auto spoilers - thanks for that information Jim!

Bill