Another i9-9900k build

[martin-w 3,234]

To be honest, I wouldn't expect a noticeable difference between 8700K and 9900K. 

[LRW 42]

Going from a 6-year old 3570k to the 9900k has been a definite improvement for me.  Although I've gone down a rabbit hole the past few days trying to determine if there's a setting that would avoid the stutters when flying over Terminal Island in Long Beach with Orbx SoCal.  I ended up turning of all autogen, reflections, and shadows to no avail.  There's something about that scenery at that location that hammers the CPU.  With HT off, 6 or 7 cores would hit 100%.  With HT on, 14 threads would hit 100%.  Although I can't run with HT on at 5.0 when AVX kicks in because of temperature spikes.  New AIO supposed to be delivered tomorrow...speak of the devil, the USPS just delivered it to my door.  Welp, time to open up the case again.

[LRW 42]

Big disappointment with the Asus Ryujin 360 AIO.  I don't see that it cools any better than the EVGA CLC 280 and, even worse, it doesn't even have the basic features of the EVGA cooler, like showing the coolant temp and allowing setting the radiator fans based on it.  And as for instructions on how to use the software: "Please visit the product support page at http://www.asus.com to download and install the control software."  The download page for the Ryujin has AI Suite III, LiveDash, and firmware updates, but no additional documentation.  The LiveDash is easy enough to use.  It lets you select the following:

• Parameters you want to display on the OLED (although it doesn't remember previous choices - everything is unchecked when you open it)
• What image or animation to display, either predefined or custom
• A custom string to display with the ROG logo during boot
• Lighting control for the LED stripe, if you don't have an Asus mobo with Aura

The first choice is the only one I used.  Pump and fan control is done from AI Suite, which seems like it could be an issue if you bought this to use in a non-Asus mobo.  Unfortunately for me AI Suite didn't see the radiator or VRM fans leaving me not knowing how I was supposed to control them, as there is no documentation or FAQ.  I found out from a new review of the Ryujin AIOs by Tiny Tom Logan on OC3D's youtube channel.  I found that my system doesn't see the USB connection on every boot, especially cold boot.  Tom pointed out a non-trivial issue.  Namely that the pump and fans all operate based on the CPU temp, but not the actual temp reported by the CPU; rather, it's from a mobo probe that has a definite lag and under reports the CPU temp by 5-10C.  Although I found that it also spikes intermittently by 10-15C, which caused all the fans to suddenly run high for a couple of seconds before slowing down again.  I adjusted the fan curves to eliminate those annoying run-ups.  The best thing about the Ryujin 360 is the set of Noctua fans.  I've never used them before and I really like them.  The little VRM fan on the block is definitely the loudest thing in my system when it spools up.  I don't know the speeds of any of the Ryujin fans because they don't appear in the fan list that shows the current speeds.  The fans only show up in the profile graph that lets you customize the speed by percentage.

I'll run some direct comparison tests in the morning with the Ryujin and the EVGA CLC with both HT on and off to get some hard numbers, but I'm leaning toward returning the Ryujin to Amazon.  I think I can put the $279.99 ($301.06 w/tax) to better use.  Maybe it's time I started looking at a custom loop.

[martin-w 3,234]

8 hours ago, LRW said:

Big disappointment with the Asus Ryujin 360 AIO.  I don't see that it cools any better than the EVGA CLC 280 and, even worse, it doesn't even have the basic features of the EVGA cooler, like showing the coolant temp and allowing setting the radiator fans based on it.  And as for instructions on how to use the software: "Please visit the product support page at http://www.asus.com to download and install the control software."  The download page for the Ryujin has AI Suite III, LiveDash, and firmware updates, but no additional documentation.  The LiveDash is easy enough to use.  It lets you select the following:

• Parameters you want to display on the OLED (although it doesn't remember previous choices - everything is unchecked when you open it)
• What image or animation to display, either predefined or custom
• A custom string to display with the ROG logo during boot
• Lighting control for the LED stripe, if you don't have an Asus mobo with Aura

The first choice is the only one I used.  Pump and fan control is done from AI Suite, which seems like it could be an issue if you bought this to use in a non-Asus mobo.  Unfortunately for me AI Suite didn't see the radiator or VRM fans leaving me not knowing how I was supposed to control them, as there is no documentation or FAQ.  I found out from a new review of the Ryujin AIOs by Tiny Tom Logan on OC3D's youtube channel.  I found that my system doesn't see the USB connection on every boot, especially cold boot.  Tom pointed out a non-trivial issue.  Namely that the pump and fans all operate based on the CPU temp, but not the actual temp reported by the CPU; rather, it's from a mobo probe that has a definite lag and under reports the CPU temp by 5-10C.  Although I found that it also spikes intermittently by 10-15C, which caused all the fans to suddenly run high for a couple of seconds before slowing down again.  I adjusted the fan curves to eliminate those annoying run-ups.  The best thing about the Ryujin 360 is the set of Noctua fans.  I've never used them before and I really like them.  The little VRM fan on the block is definitely the loudest thing in my system when it spools up.  I don't know the speeds of any of the Ryujin fans because they don't appear in the fan list that shows the current speeds.  The fans only show up in the profile graph that lets you customize the speed by percentage.

I'll run some direct comparison tests in the morning with the Ryujin and the EVGA CLC with both HT on and off to get some hard numbers, but I'm leaning toward returning the Ryujin to Amazon.  I think I can put the $279.99 ($301.06 w/tax) to better use.  Maybe it's time I started looking at a custom loop.

 

 

Issues pretty much outlined in the video I posted. the fan on the cold plate is very noisy, most turn it off. AiSuite temp is monitored from a sensor behind the socket, so not Core Temp, thus temps in AiSuite are about ten degrees cooler than Core Temp. This is a know issue with Fan Expert, has been for years.

 

Clean it up, pack it up, and send it back! 

 

Edit: apologies, I now see you have mentioned the above in your previous reply. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by martin-w

[J0nx 48]

Bummer. At twice the price of other 360 AIOs, Asus should have delivered something really special here. Those guys are slipping a lot lately with their products. Wonder if they have had some c-suite changes recently?

Edited November 26, 2018 by J0nx

[LRW 42]

1 hour ago, J0nx said:

Bummer. At twice the price of other 360 AIOs, Asus should have delivered something really special here. Those guys are slipping a lot lately with their products. Wonder if they have had some c-suite changes recently?

Ya.  It appears that they put all of their effort into the bells and whistles of the OLED display and the actual functionality was a poorly implemented afterthought.

[LRW 42]

8 hours ago, martin-w said:

Clean it up, pack it up, and send it back! 

Created the return on Amazon.  It's packed and ready for UPS to pick up tomorrow.

I ran comparisons between the Ryujin and the EVGA in Cinebench (which takes 20 seconds to run) and RealBench (15 minutes) .  The Ryujin did better than the EVGA with HT off, but the EVGA did as well as, or better than, the Ryujin with HT on.  The values are the average peak temps for the 8 cores.

	Cinebench R15
	HT Off @ 5.0			HT On @ 5.0
	Ryujin	EVGA	Diff	Ryujin	EVGA	Diff
	66 °C	73 °C	7 °C	91 °C	81 °C	-10 °C

 

   

RealBench 2.43 (15 min - 4GB)
HT Off @ 5.0			HT On @ 5.0			HT On @ 4.9
Ryujin	EVGA	Diff	Ryujin	EVGA	Diff	Ryujin	EVGA	Diff
76 °C	88 °C	12 °C	94 °C	94 °C	0 °C	93 °C	94 °C	1 °C

HT on @ 5.0 resulted in a BSOD for both coolers about half way through.

[G-YMML1 582]

Thank you very much for the detailed report. I just have ordered the system on i9-9900k, My choice of MOBO is ASUS Maximus VI + H115i Cooling + Crucial DDR4-2666 32GB. I will be using your guide for my own OC.

Again, appreciate the effort and sharing.

 

Best Regards

Dmitriy

[SimonC 116]

A question, hopefully not much out of place: why is everyone still hung onto Asus, since they did that "thing" with the VRM (extended 8 phase, which isn't that, but rather 4+2). Is this old news?

[martin-w 3,234]

13 hours ago, SimonC said:

A question, hopefully not much out of place: why is everyone still hung onto Asus, since they did that "thing" with the VRM (extended 8 phase, which isn't that, but rather 4+2). Is this old news?

 

It's 4 phase yes, plenty posted about it in the forum.  I think most Asus enthusiasts, me included, don't regard it as a huge issue. Not something that would have a huge impact on the majority of us. True that the VRM runs 10 degrees or so warmer, but no big deal in the grand scheme of things. 

[SimonC 116]

Thanks - really didn't read much about it, only came over like two weeks ago or about, and was merely wondering.

Does it make a difference if you would want to overclock I9? And what is the grand scheme really, when you mention 10 degrees on the VRM? That's a little lot, no?

[LRW 42]

2 hours ago, SimonC said:

Thanks - really didn't read much about it, only came over like two weeks ago or about, and was merely wondering.

Does it make a difference if you would want to overclock I9? And what is the grand scheme really, when you mention 10 degrees on the VRM? That's a little lot, no?

I'm not concerned at this point.  After running the RealBench stress test for 15 minutes at 5.0 with HT off, and a max power draw of 167W, the max VRM temp reported on my board was 51C.  I have no direct cooling of the VRMs; just the 3 side-mounted 120mm fans.

[G-YMML1 582]

Gents,

What testing software for OC would you recommend in Year 2018? I have a newest payware version of AIDA64 that has embedded OC test solution? Is it enough or I should try something else? 

[martin-w 3,234]

19 hours ago, SimonC said:

Thanks - really didn't read much about it, only came over like two weeks ago or about, and was merely wondering.

Does it make a difference if you would want to overclock I9? And what is the grand scheme really, when you mention 10 degrees on the VRM? That's a little lot, no?

 

That's 10 degrees under very high load compared with other manufacturers Z390 boards. As long as the VRM is a decent margin away from max VRM temp it's not an issue. If you are a power user, competitive overclocker etc, that's pushing the rig to the absolute max it might be an issue, but for the vast majority not an issue in practice. I think most reviewers were more concerned about Asus being disingenuous and claiming it was 8 phase when it wasn't, rather than any issues for the average user. 

[martin-w 3,234]

21 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

Gents,

What testing software for OC would you recommend in Year 2018? I have a newest payware version of AIDA64 that has embedded OC test solution? Is it enough or I should try something else? 

 

 

Aida64 is nice, but do remember it runs AVX instruction sets, and when you do that you push the CPU to a level that it doesn't usually reach in games and the sim. AVX is only utilised by certain applications like Handbrake, Photoshop, certain stress tests like Prime 95 etc. With AVX on, temp will rocket and your overclock will be limited. 

If using Aida64, you can un-tick the box that says "run FPU" it wont run AVX then and will be more akin to how you use your PC in everyday use.  Heat will be lower and thus you will be able to OC higher.

I would also recommend that you set the AVX offset in the BIOS to 3, that way your motherboard will automatically down clock by 300 MHz if you ever run AVX. When you aren't, for example in games and the sim, your CPU will run at the value you have overclocked it to.

RealBench: I really like RealBench,  but it does run Handbrake, so if you have set an AVX offset (as I recommend you do) it will down clock in accordance with the value you set in the BIOS. A good way to determine if you have set sufficient AVX off-set perhaps.

OCCT: Haven't used it much, but the same applies re AVX, there should be a method of running without AVX in the settings. 

Prime95: Ignore the nonsense about running it for 24 hours, it's a PC myth, a couple of hours is fine, then test by running the apps you use normally, the sim for example. I would recommend the older version of Prime that doesn't run AVX, 26.6 I think it is, alternately, you can disable AVX in the new version. 

CineBench: I use it for a quick stability test while tweaking frequency and voltage. If stable, I then run a lengthy stress test afterwards. So in that respect very useful. About the same level of stress on the CPU as Prime 95 26.6.