Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
vc10man

Enter the wrong Flex Temp.........and near catastrophe

Recommended Posts

The Canadian Boeing 737 was taking off from Belfast International Airport when a mistake by cabin crew meant its top speed was not hit - and take-off was prevented.

Failing to fly at the required height the plane smashed into the light, but thanks to a lack of runway obstacles, was able to avoid hitting anything else. 

The incident occurred when a crew member entered the outside temperature as-52C instead of the actual temperature of 16C.

The error on the Flight Management Computer meant the assumed temperate thrust only delivered 60% of the thrust required for take-off, in July last year. 

  • Upvote 2

Rick Almeida

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, vc10man said:

a mistake by cabin crew

I don,t think you can blame this one on cabin crew! I think it has more to do with the pilots, don't you think?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, nawarren said:

I don,t think you can blame this one on cabin crew! I think it has more to do with the pilots, don't you think?

I am NOT blaming the cabin crew----all I did was copy/paste the news article, which was rather long. I too raised my eyebrows when I saw the 'cabin crew' reference, but a newspaper probably cannot distinguish between flightdeck crew and cabin crew.

So, don't blame the messenger!

 

Edited by vc10man
  • Like 1

Rick Almeida

Share this post


Link to post

Wow, that's some sloppy pre-flight setting up for sure. It's no big deal to get it a few degrees wrong, in fact you pretty much will anyway in most cases when compared to the real actual temperature, but out by 68 degrees is more than a little off the mark!


Alan Bradbury

Check out my youtube flight sim videos: Here

Share this post


Link to post

The whole article doesn't make sense. Since they actually took off, take off wasn't prevented. And things like the Sunwing accident happen more often than you might think! 

But if nothing happens you usually don't read about it 😉  

Edited by FDEdev
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Probably an easier mistake to make than one might think...

They didn't enter the wrong assumed temperature. They both calculated and entered that correctly.

What they did was enter the cruise OAT instead of the ambient OAT.

This resulted in the FMC thrust calculation being wrong. However, that's pretty hard to trap: everywhere they looked to check the assumed temperature/derate (on the EICAS etc) it would have been correct.

The only way to know something was wrong would have been to know that the calculated N1 was wrong. But that information was not available on their takeoff performance calculation software (and frankly I don't think it is on many) and when you're doing derated/reduced thrust takeoffs day in, day out with all sorts of N1 figures, what chance that you have a good "normal" reference baseline? The runway was relatively long, the airport is near sea level... talking purely from a sim perspective, I'm not sure I would be able to pick up at all if the calculated N1/EPR was off.

Of course, you could ask what sort of system requires manual input of the OAT when most every other type senses that automatically...

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Simon Kelsey

sig_FSLBetaTester.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
48 minutes ago, vc10man said:

I am NOT blaming the cabin crew----all I did was copy/paste the news article, which was rather long. I too raised my eyebrows when I saw the 'cabin crew' reference, but a newspaper probably cannot distinguish between flightdeck crew and cabin crew.

So, don't blame the messenger!

 

Rick,

Next time you’re quoting an article, you’d be better served to mention that in the preface and put quotes “” around the part you’ve copied and pasted, otherwise we'll assume what you’ve written are your words, not someone else’s. Might want to post the link to the article you’re quoting as well.

  • Like 2

Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry, Sean.

Here's the headlines on the article.

"

Packed holiday jet smashed into a runway light in near 'catastrophic' accident in Belfast after crew entered the wrong data into its flight computer

  • Canadian Boeing 737 smashed into runway a light at Belfast International Airport
  • The Corfu bound jet had failed to reach required height after a crew mistake 
  • A further system malfunction prevented an alarm alerting the cabin's crew                     "
  •  

    Under which, this 

 " The Sunwing plane hit a light but did manage to fly to Greece without further incident - had there been any other obstacles in the flight path - there could have been a 'catastrophic' incident a report said 

A further malfunction meant staff were not alerted via an alarm to the mistake during take-off at around 3.45pm. 

The Sunwing Airlines plane destined for Corfu then took off from the airport with 'insufficient power to meet regulated performance requirements' and struck the light.   

An investigation found there were no injuries and no damage to the aircraft which continued its flight to Corfu without incident but the report adds that this was only because of a lack of obstacles in the flight path.

The report states: 'It was only the benign nature of the runway clearway and lack of obstacles in the climb-out path which allowed the aircraft to climb away without further collision after it struck the runway light.

                                                                                                                                                   "

 

 


Rick Almeida

Share this post


Link to post
44 minutes ago, simbol said:

So why they blame the cabin crew in the article? do they mean the pilots? very badly written.

Regards,
S.

Yes, it is a newspaper that probably as I indicated above, in post#3, lumps Flightdeck Crew and Cabin Crew as one and the same Flight Crew.


Rick Almeida

Share this post


Link to post

Is there an official report available on this incident available from the AAIB?

Edited by ckyliu

ckyliu, proud supporter of ViaIntercity.com. Find my spec and settings in "About me" on my profile.

support1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

Is there an official report available on this incident available from the Irish authorities?

AAIB

 

Share this post


Link to post

AAIB since it's part of UK. 


Jude Bradley
Beech Baron: Uh, Tower, verify you want me to taxi in front of the 747?
ATC: Yeah, it's OK. He's not hungry.

X-Plane 11 and P3D v5 hotfix 2  🙂

System specs: Windows 10  Pro 64-bit, i9-9900KF  Gigabyte Z390 RTX-2070, 32GB RAM  1X 1TB M2 for X-Plane 11, 1x 500GB SSD for P3Dv5, 1x256GB SSD for OS. Alpha-tester for FS2020

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
  • Donation Goals

    AVSIM's 2020 Fundraising Goal

    Donate to our annual general fundraising goal. This donation keeps our doors open and providing you service 24 x 7 x 365. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. We reset this goal every new year for the following year's goal.


    28%
    $7,170.00 of $25,000.00 Donate Now
×
×
  • Create New...