Flight1 Frustration - Am I the only one

[qqwertz 772]

1 hour ago, jlund said:

Have you downloaded their new Flight1 Purchase Agent? It makes it way easier to download and manage your purchases.

The old system was not good, the new purchase agent makes it, in my opinion, even more complicated. What I dislike the most is that Flight1 does not give you the option to purchase a product on a non-Microsoft device. I generally avoid entering payment details on my Windows PC (I just don't trust it), and Flight1 is the only company that forces me to do just that.

Peter

[jlund 380]

I don't think the Agent is perfect, but still thinks it's an improvement to the old system. I can't remember, but doesn't Flight1 support Paypal?

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by jlund

[Bob Scott 7,716]

I don't think there's been a copy protection system ever made that someone, somewhere didn't like.

Flight1 is the worst?  Really??  So they're worse than outfits that want you to buy a for-fee extended download service to get the latest version of your software?  Worse than developers that use Esellerate, which recently had its validation servers stop working over a long weekend and they didn't get it fixed for around 4 days?  Worse than products that require an internet connection to a working validation server every time they are run?  Worse than products that require several days of e-mail exchanges to get the registration reset every time they are re-installed to a new PC?  Worse than products sold though a now-defunct reseller or a reseller that has broken ties with the developer and can/will no longer provide updates?  I think there are a lot of worse options out there than Flight1.

I get that it might be frustrating to have to jump a few hurdles when you want it to just work, but I've found over the course of many years doing this that Flight1 has a pretty reliable system that strikes a fair balance between the need to use the software you paid for and their need to keep their IP from being stolen in wholesale fashion.  Flight1 has a pretty reasonable mechanism for install validation, automated reactivation after multiple installs, even an automated service to provide you a complete list of every product you've ever bought from them.  They're present and active on their forums, too.  Now if you forget your password, that's gonna be a problem anywhere...just try to get into the SimMarket or JustFlight or Aerosoft website without your password...it won't work out well there either!

I just did a complete system rebuild, and in all honesty, getting my Flight1 titles reinstalled on a fresh build wasn't even in the top ten of the biggest hassles associated with that project.

Regards

 

[brucets 94]

Hey, Bob --

I have to agree with the OP. I dread having to update or re-install F1 products! It's like finding your way thru a corn maze!

A couple weeks ago I was alerted to an update for GEX, which I reluctantly proceeded with. The instructions were very lengthy and seemed unrealistically complex, as usual, and included converting to their new download system, from the original DVD, system(which sounds like it will be easier). First I had a problem getting recognized as a legit purchaser. Then I tried for almost 2 days to install the upgrade and kept getting an error message. Jeff and Nick were on it immediately though and were very patient. Turns out it was my failure to follow the instructions, exactly, that caused the problem. It was clearly written that both the installer exe file and the data file were to be downloaded and placed in a shared folder before the installation was initiated. Duh! After Nick pointed that out it went smoothly and I had the updated NA and APT! I then attempted to install EU GEX, which is not currently on this PC. I used the exact sign in procedures that finally worked before and it said I wasn't recognized as a legit purchaser and also warned that if I entered wrong information too many times I would be shut out entirely! I said heck with it, I don't fly much in Europe anyway!!

That said, all your points are valid!

Greetings from PHX!

Bruce

[Guest]

I'll agree with the OP, Flight 1's copy protection process (and a few others) isn't something I'd consider user friendly and I have avoided buying products from Flight 1 because of it ... there ARE better ways to accomplish DRM with less user issues/hassle and I'm sure it's costing Flight 1 support time because even though I can work thru the process, I know many just like the OP that have problems and/or avoid Flight 1 purchases.

I did get their latest Flight 1 update manager and it really didn't make the process that much less clunky ... to sell and install products, one wants to make that process as fast and as transparent as possible before the buyer changes their mind 😉  Orbx and a few other vendors have an excellent ease to buy/install process, I'd love to see more like that especially given that I buy just about every product made for P3D V4.  But when it comes to Flight 1 delivery, I'll look for alternative web stores that might have the same product without the fuss.

Since we're on the topic and I'm in the middle of a fresh PC install of everything, "deactivation" shouldn't require special procedures, the Uninstaller should by definition do any necessary deactivation work ... I should NOT need to load the product to deactivate the product license or even worse there is no deactivation process ... a support call is "required" ... I don't see how this is good for the vendor as it just increases their support costs.  For someone like me, who's regularly changing hardware it's a hassle and time consumer and just adds unnecessary delays to the process.

I'm obviously very Pro-DRM, but there are much better ways to be transparent about it and if deactivation is required, add it to the uninstaller as this will ultimately save on support costs.

Cheers, Rob.

[simbol 5,818]

1 hour ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I'm obviously very Pro-DRM, but there are much better ways to be transparent about it and if deactivation is required, add it to the uninstaller as this will ultimately save on support costs.

Cheers, Rob.

Good advice, I will try to implement on my future products however I think the current uninstaller compilation software I am using cannot support it, maybe this is the reason others haven't done it, but I do agree it is something that would help.

I think ideally we should ask the user: Do you want to de-activate your license? and If they say no, then when they re-install the product in the future things should just continue to work.

Regards,
S.

[Guest]

Hi Raul,

The version of Install Shield that comes with VS 2017 has all you need to launch a process during Uninstall ... that process can do the deactivation.  Also, no requirement to make license key and activation the same, separate them so just prompt to re-activate if valid key found (no need to re-enter the key).  Many ways to track activation's to catch piracy/theft.

Cheers, Rob.

[vgbaron 3,504]

Boy, I must be doing something wrong. I've bought many titles from Flight1 and have uninstalled, reinstalled and transferred to several new systems with ease.  I think the problems arise with people who don't use them often and forget the procedure or where their .lic files are located.

Are there easier methods? You bet but F1's method is still very easy.

Vic

[Ted Striker 338]

2 hours ago, vgbaron said:

I think the problems arise with people who don't use them often and forget the procedure or where their .lic files are located.

I think you hit the nail on the head there Vic. Every developer has a different system that they are intimately familiar with and to them it is easy and straight forward. For the average avsim member that has products from 10 or 20 developers it is mind numbing to try and remember how each one works. It generally takes me a whole evening to uninstall and reinstall a product because first I need to scan my computer for any documents that might have instructions on the correct way to do it. Then I need to go to the developers website and scour it and the forums for any further instructions. Before I RTFM, I need to Find the FM as each developer has it in a different location. I really miss the old days of just popping in the DVD and following the instructions. Why can't the developers put all the instructions needed in their installers and uninstallers? And while I am on my whining rant, it would be nice if the reasons for doing things when you have options like de-activating, where also included with the instructions.

Back on topic, I haven't had any major problems with the Flight1 installers but there are certainly much easier and intuitive ones used by other developers.

Heck, sometimes I wish we still had the option for complete manual installs as then I would know what is being added to my computer and where. I know it is more cumbersome, but I believe it forced people to understand how the sim worked by manually installing addons..but now I'm really digressing....

Ted

[harrry 322]

No one should tell me what folder or drive to install in.  No one should clutter my computer with files all over the place.

If I wish to use a 120GB ssd I should be able to, it is not right for a seller to take it over.

[dogtrack 18]

Same as the OP here.  I stopped buying through F1, all download products, about 15 years ago.  Bought the CD/DVD versions of products.  They are fine to use.  However, now they are ending Disc Media, so that will be the end of dealing with F1 for me.  It all smacks of DRM Paranoia, much the same way the Earth Simulations system was.  That of course ended in the company's demise, people just could not be bothered jumping through all the hoops. I get the point about copyright theft but is it really necessary to turn folks lives into such a chaotic turmoil ?  I for one vote with my wallet and don't allow any company to wind me up.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

I have not used Flight1 for P3D but I did enjoy them, it's been years since I purchased a product from them, I mainly buy from Carenado now that RealAir is gone.  Service from third party vendors depends on rapport, how we correspond with them.  My favorite vendors in terms of service are Carenado and Justflight, Justflight especially.  When I found a minor, very minor bug in their Beech Duchess they responded with a patch immediately, published for everyone.  When I found a bug in Carenado's product, they offered me a free aircraft although I did not take them up on the offer since I had all the aircraft I wanted from them at the time.  Things like that from vendors, even if some do not like their products for various reasons, is what sets them apart from the mix.  Microsoft was great with me, inviting me on the FS9 and FSX betas.  I participated in the FS9 beta, was given free media for both sims but purchased FSX because I did not feel right accepting it for free since I did not have the system then to participate in its beta.  I have been asked by vendors to participate in other betas but since software QA is my profession I have declined, since I find it work upon work and I like to leave work at work, not at home, even though I am retired now I still consult for my old colleagues, especially for the testing program AutoIT.

Vendors do read these threads and they do try to adjust their support to suit, but we must remember the size of their operation does not approach the size of mission critical vendors that charge thousands or tens of thousands for their products and support systems.  We tend to think third party sim vendors are raking in the dough, but given the work they do, their compensation is not as much as they think.  A visual model alone is an extensive CAD project, gauges are extensive coding projects, and flight models require flying, tuning, and retooling over and over until the envelope approaches near perfection.  All this is done with a small team, not large teams of dozens like I used to work with, I used to work with onshore and offshore teams in an Agile environment, and as a scrum master I would hold international scrums every morning and sometimes video scrums with my colleagues in Europe and India, just to complete biweekly software builds and monthly production releases.  Support was work, work, work and we had to work for our clients with a smile, given what they paid us.

John

[1st fltsimguy 466]

On 11/22/2018 at 12:31 PM, w6kd said:

I don't think there's been a copy protection system ever made that someone, somewhere didn't like.

Flight1 is the worst?  Really??  So they're worse than outfits that want you to buy a for-fee extended download service to get the latest version of your software?  Worse than developers that use Esellerate, which recently had its validation servers stop working over a long weekend and they didn't get it fixed for around 4 days?  Worse than products that require an internet connection to a working validation server every time they are run?  Worse than products that require several days of e-mail exchanges to get the registration reset every time they are re-installed to a new PC?  Worse than products sold though a now-defunct reseller or a reseller that has broken ties with the developer and can/will no longer provide updates?  I think there are a lot of worse options out there than Flight1.

I get that it might be frustrating to have to jump a few hurdles when you want it to just work, but I've found over the course of many years doing this that Flight1 has a pretty reliable system that strikes a fair balance between the need to use the software you paid for and their need to keep their IP from being stolen in wholesale fashion.  Flight1 has a pretty reasonable mechanism for install validation, automated reactivation after multiple installs, even an automated service to provide you a complete list of every product you've ever bought from them.  They're present and active on their forums, too.  Now if you forget your password, that's gonna be a problem anywhere...just try to get into the SimMarket or JustFlight or Aerosoft website without your password...it won't work out well there either!

I just did a complete system rebuild, and in all honesty, getting my Flight1 titles reinstalled on a fresh build wasn't even in the top ten of the biggest hassles associated with that project.

Regards

 

Fair enough.

Personally I was just saying that Flight1 is frustrating and cumbersome, I'm sure folks have had issues with others as well.

AND, I save my passwords and ensure that they autofil because my entire machine and my Firebox have their own passwords before one gets into the Flight1 stuff. The issue I had was my SAVED password and the one that should have been valid was not working, they locked me out..in the end I has to get a new password...AND then I find that instead of putting all certificates and such in ONE location they actually has made a separate folder on my C drive for the RXP GTN which is simply ridiculous. I don't want companies making folders on my very clean and organized C drive.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

1 minute ago, 1st fltsimguy said:

Fair enough.

Personally I was just saying that Flight1 is frustrating and cumbersome, I'm sure folks have had issues with others as well.

AND, I save my passwords and ensure that they autofil because my entire machine and my Firebox have their own passwords before one gets into the Flight1 stuff. The issue I had was my SAVED password and the one that should have been valid was not working, they locked me out..in the end I has to get a new password...AND then I find that instead of putting all certificates and such in ONE location they actually has made a separate folder on my C drive for the RXP GTN which is simply ridiculous. I don't want companies making folders on my very clean and organized C drive.

Whenever I buy a product I always save the license key, and email it back to myself so I have it for posterity, just in case I lose it.  Exception is Carenado and Alabeo and Justflight, they save the keys for you as long as you log in with the right account and password.  I still kick myself because I lost my old computer with my RealAir login and key, could not remember it, could not get the Dukes again even though I messaged the RealAir devs who knew d***n well I purchased their product and promoted it with screenshots here.  Left me angry towards them, they made a fine product but ignored a good customer.  Not my fault they went out of business, I paid for two products of theirs, rant over.

John

[1st fltsimguy 466]

1 hour ago, Cactus521 said:

  I still kick myself because I lost my old computer with my RealAir login and key, could not remember it, could not get the Dukes again even though I messaged the RealAir devs who knew d***n well I purchased their product and promoted it with screenshots here.  Left me angry towards them, they made a fine product but ignored a good customer.  Not my fault they went out of business, I paid for two products of theirs, rant over.

John

Sorry to hear about the Real Air.

I do more or less the same, I maintain to HDa, one a master and another a backup and keep all my payware, serials in duplicate.