Ray Proudfoot

P3D running but CPU not running at max speed

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6 minutes ago, Dirk98 said:

I'll try it then, sounds intriguing!! :biggrin:

 

I meant vs. this one:

Quote

Systems with 4 core HT=On should use AffinityMask=116=(01,11,01,00) with addons on core 0
Systems with 4 core HT=On should use AffinityMask=85=(01,01,01,01) or 170=(10,10,10,10).

but honestly I doubt the above vs. my fine-tuned 11.11.11.01 with much much of your help ))

 

Thanks!

Edited by Dirk98

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And I guess much of AM section in Tuning Guide was written pre-P3Dv4:

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 If more than four are available, only the first four are meaningful. Jobs beyond 4 are discarded unless they finish first, they can only serve benefit if something interrupts the others. Sweet spot is four jobs, on a 4GHz CPU, 3 or 5 jobs perform worse, 4 is best.

 

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9 hours ago, SteveW said:

Yes - pretty obviously this comment is very annoying - since you well know that almost single handedly I've been trying to champion this kind of understanding into the community. The AM's on the site don't represent the best or worst setting - they represent examples of setting. So I wouldn't mind if you retracted this statement.

Of course I wholeheartedly retract my statement! And I never meant it to be serious, as everybody around knows it was your (11.11.11.01) one of the best results and suggestions for a 4-Core HT systems running P3Dv4 and  became classic!

Cheers

Edited by Dirk98
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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I monitored CPU usage using CPU-Z and on all cores the max was around 4.4 or thereabouts. Are you saying that is throttled back with VSync enabled? I temporarily disabled VSync and Triple Buffering expecting CPU usage to rise but it didn't. Why? Turbo Boost is enabled in the BIOS so why didn't CPU speed rise to 5.0?

I have all 10 cores on my 7900X locked at 4.8. No boost. That's both the minimum and maximum.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I rebooted and added FSUIPC5 to  DLL.XML and P3D crashed before the free flight screen

Without seeing the log I can't be positive, but it is almost always indicative of a corrupt WX file or WXstationlist.bin file. When FSUIPC starts reading the weather, to populate its weather offsets, that causes SimConnect to access those binary files. And there are NO checks on their validity. The results vary from straight-forward crashes to weird things going on subsequently -- all due to corrupt data causing corruption in memory.

Did you look in Windows Event Viewer to see where it crashed?

The recent releases of FSUIPC5 delete the WXstationlist.bin when P3D terminates -- assuming it terminates successfully (again the FSUIPC log will show that). This may explain why it loads subsequently.

Some programs seem to add entries to WXstationlist.bin, for instance in order to get different weather during a transoceanic flight. ASP4 does this I think, so when I first reported these corruptions Damian of HiFi was concerned as to whether it was ASP4. But we found no consistency.

FSUIPC cannot do anything to prevent SimConnect reading these files without checking them. I did ask L-M to look into changing their format, make them either self-checking or converting them to something much less likely to corrupt things, like XML or plain text formats*. But nothing's come of it so far -- they wanted evidence that they could cause problems. I did supply Windows crash reports and sample files, not to no avail yet as far as I'm aware.

*Note: WXstationlist.bin is character based, being just a concatenation of ICAO WX station IDs. But I think it needs to be a multiple of 4 characters, and if it isn't that causes problems -- something easy enough to check I would have thought!

To test if your problem is related to weather files you can add:

NoWeatherAtAll=Yes

to the [General] section of the FSUIPC5.INI file.

BTW all of this has been dealt with numerous times on my Support Forum, which is where your suspicions ought to have been reported. I'm only answering in full here because it it you, Ray! 😉

Pete

 

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26 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

I have all 10 cores on my 7900X locked at 4.8. No boost. That's both the minimum and maximum.

 

Have 2 P3D systems 7920X with 2 cores disabled in bios run 10 cores at 5.1ghz all cores sync and avx 0 and get more cash per core , 8700k 5.4ghz  avx0 or 5.5ghz avx1all cores sync both cpus with HT off.

think its a hype with setting differnt clocks or boost per core, if it mange to do 5.0 ghz on the main p3d tread wy not run the other ones the same clockspeed it dont hurt. 

wy it downclock to 4.4 read the intels explination how the cpu work there is the answer , 

Edited by westman

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15 minutes ago, westman said:

Have 2 P3D systems 7920X with 2 cores disabled in bios run 10 cores at 5.1ghz all cores sync and avx 0 and get more cash per core , 8700k 5.4ghz  avx0 or 5.5ghz avx1all cores sync both cpus with HT off.

Wow! Are those water cooled (not just the usual Corsair H100 etc block on the CPU)? Carefully selected processor chips -- delidded?

I did get 5.1 on my 7900x on one core only, but that wasn't stable. I also tried 5.0 with two of the other cores reduced to 4.6 (instead of 4.8). That was stable, but it made no noticeable difference in P3D4 performance, so I went back to the easier setting with them all fixed at 4.8.

Core 0 is almost always 100% occupied, limiting P3D4. Usually 3-4 of the other cores are up to 50% occupied. I use Affinities to put any other processes (and my Lua threads) on the remaining 5 cores.

My P3D4 performance is constrained by the three windows needed for a full 210 degree FOV curved screen. If i just have it set as one stretched window, with no true side views and gross distortion (the max FOV with the lowest zoom factor, is about 150 degrees, and then the side distortion is awful).

Pete

 

Edited by Pete Dowson

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Hi Pete,

Grateful for your post. As I said in my earlier reply I didn't really suspect FSUIPC5. Something else is going on here. A flight from EGCC-EHAM was fine so P3D is stable on a second launch. It's just the first one where it always fails.

Regarding the CPU speed do you have Turbo Boost in your BIOS? I'm not sure how the overclocking has been done with the i7-8086K but perhaps all it needs is Turbo Boost to be set and the system takes care of itself.

I'm attaching a log for my last flight. I can't see anything wrong but I'm not the expert. Thanks for your help.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gv471n5p8039fr/FSUIPC5_Log.zip?dl=0

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1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

Did you look in Windows Event Viewer to see where it crashed?

To test if your problem is related to weather files you can add:

NoWeatherAtAll=Yes

to the [General] section of the FSUIPC5.INI file.😉

 

Hi Pete,

Can't find anything now in the Event Log for FSUIPC. But as I said I don't think that is the cause as other crashes have listed ChasePlane and my GoFlight exe which I'm certain ar as robust as FSUIPC.

Trying a reboot now with that entry in the ini file. It just crashed again. ntdll.dll. It's that every time even with different programs such as ChasePlane. Event Viewer is useless. Why can't L-M create a log as you do so that if something crashes the log can provide a pointer?

This is the FSUIPC5 log from that crash...

********* FSUIPC5, Version 5.141e (29th August 2018) by Pete Dowson *********
Running inside Prepar3D v4
Module base=7FFB55B90000
Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit reported as Build 17763, Release ID: 1809 (OS 10.0)
Prepar3D.exe version = 4.3.29.25520
Reading options from "D:\P3Dv4\Modules\FSUIPC5.ini"
Checking the Registrations now ...
User Name="Ray Proudfoot"
User Addr="rayproudfoot@btinternet.com"
FSUIPC5 Key is provided
WideFS7 Key is provided
       15 System time = 25/11/2018 12:44:44
       15 FLT UNC path = "\\CHILLBLAST\Users\Ray\Documents\Prepar3D v4 Files\"
       15 NOTE: configuring for no weather reads or writes!
       15 Using DialogMode
       47 FS UNC path = "D:\P3Dv4\"
      125 ---------------------- Joystick Device Scan -----------------------
      140 Product= Saitek Pro Flight Yoke
      140    Manufacturer= Saitek
      140    Vendor=06A3, Product=0BAC (Version 3.1)

Edited by Ray Proudfoot

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1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

The recent releases of FSUIPC5 delete the WXstationlist.bin when P3D terminates -- assuming it terminates successfully (again the FSUIPC log will show that). This may explain why it loads subsequently.

Some programs seem to add entries to WXstationlist.bin, for instance in order to get different weather during a transoceanic flight. ASP4 does this I think, so when I first reported these corruptions Damian of HiFi was concerned as to whether it was ASP4. But we found no consistency.

*Note: WXstationlist.bin is character based, being just a concatenation of ICAO WX station IDs. But I think it needs to be a multiple of 4 characters, and if it isn't that causes problems -- something easy enough to check I would have thought!😉

 

Pete,

Assuming we're talking about WXstationlist.bin in P3D\Weather folder I renamed the extension to bi# so a new one would (presumably) be generated. It wasn't even with that Wx entry removed from fsuipc5.ini and AS16 running.

The file has a last modified date of 24/5/2017. So it's never been changed or deleted. The log shows it was deleted so is that incorrect or are we talking about another file in another place?

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1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

Wow! Are those water cooled (not just the usual Corsair H100 etc block on the CPU)? Carefully selected processor chips -- delidded?

I did get 5.1 on my 7900x on one core only, but that wasn't stable. I also tried 5.0 with two of the other cores reduced to 4.6 (instead of 4.8). That was stable, but it made no noticeable difference in P3D4 performance, so I went back to the easier setting with them all fixed at 4.8.

Core 0 is almost always 100% occupied, limiting P3D4. Usually 3-4 of the other cores are up to 50% occupied. I use Affinities to put any other processes (and my Lua threads) on the remaining 5 cores.

My P3D4 performance is constrained by the three windows needed for a full 210 degree FOV curved screen. If i just have it set as one stretched window, with no true side views and gross distortion (the max FOV with the lowest zoom factor, is about 150 degrees, and then the side distortion is awful).

Pete

 

both cpus is delidded, 7920X is a good late ES sample cooling 360 rad , EK block anf D5 pump.

8700K is a +5.3ghz binned cpu cooling AIO fractal 360 (3x120rad)

 

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2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Regarding the CPU speed do you have Turbo Boost in your BIOS?

Well, yes, it's a facility. But you can lock the speed and not use it.

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I'm attaching a log for my last flight. I can't see anything wrong but I'm not the expert.

That's "prev" log -- i.e. the one before the current or last one.

1 hour ago, westman said:

both cpus is delidded, 7920X is a good late ES sample cooling 360 rad , EK block anf D5 pump.

8700K is a +5.3ghz binned cpu cooling AIO fractal 360 (3x120rad)

Ah, all that explains your exceptional core speeds.

There's a place near here ("overclockers") which odes things like delidding and processor slection ("binned"), but the builds they due based on these are really expensive.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Assuming we're talking about WXstationlist.bin in P3D\Weather folder I renamed the extension to bi# so a new one would (presumably) be generated

The file is in your AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4 folder. The one in P3D\Weather is the backup it uses to restore that one with.

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Trying a reboot now with that entry in the ini file. It just crashed again. ntdll.dll.

Ah, in that case it isn't the weather. I'd try these things:

1. Delete your Shaders file, Let P3D build another.
2. Delete or rename your Prepar3D.cfg. (I know, you'd have to reselect your preferences).
3. Uninstalling P3D4 Client (only) and re0installing.

The log you added ends during FSUIPC's joystick scanning, which is odd. You've not added any strange hardware have you?

Anyway if it then runs on second try, that can't be relevant.

ntdll crashes are very difficult. That dll is a collection of a large number of Windows functions. One of them is being fed bad data.

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The file has a last modified date of 24/5/2017. So it's never been changed or deleted. The log shows it was deleted so is that incorrect or are we talking about another file in another place?

See above. You have the wrong location.

Pete

 

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49 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Well, yes, it's a facility. But you can lock the speed and not use it.

That's "prev" log -- i.e. the one before the current or last one.

There's a place near here ("overclockers") which odes things like delidding and processor slection ("binned"), but the builds they due based on these are really expensive.

The file is in your AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4 folder. The one in P3D\Weather is the backup it uses to restore that one with.

Ah, in that case it isn't the weather. I'd try these things:

1. Delete your Shaders file, Let P3D build another.
2. Delete or rename your Prepar3D.cfg. (I know, you'd have to reselect your preferences).
3. Uninstalling P3D4 Client (only) and re0installing.

The log you added ends during FSUIPC's joystick scanning, which is odd. You've not added any strange hardware have you?

Anyway if it then runs on second try, that can't be relevant.

ntdll crashes are very difficult. That dll is a collection of a large number of Windows functions. One of them is being fed bad data.

See above. You have the wrong location.

Pete

 

Thanks for all that Pete. I had to supply the prev log as I had started P3D again. That was the one from the crash.

I don't have a WXstationlist.bin in my AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4 folder. Should that be of concern?

I've already deleted the contents of the shaders folder. No change. But I looked at the SimObjects folder in AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4 folder and there were multiple folders relating to MyTraffic6. I checked a couple and they were empty. I took a chance and deleted the entire contents and rebooted. On first launch P3D opened at the free flight screen. I rebooted a second time and tried again. Again, it got to the free flight screen.

I thought I had cracked it but on the third attempt it crashed again. Really weird.

Thinking back to when I had MT6 installed P3D would crash before the free flight window which makes me think it could be related to addons. I do have many FS DreamTeam and FlightBeam airports - all as addons. I might disable them all and then do my test again. I'll add them back one at a time. I wonder if one might be responsible.

But I'm also wondering if anything is left over from MyTraffic. It's still installed but not referenced in addons or anything else in P3D. But maybe there's another folder holding cached stuff causing the problem. I have cleared out the shaders folder so it's not that.

No change to my GoFlight gear from when I had P3D v3. The usual modules, Saitek Pro Throttles (both USB), Yoke and CH pedals. Standard kit really.

It's the fact it crashes on first launch (after the computer is booted) but not after. Never had a problem like this. I stil suspect MT6 and something left behind.

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9 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I don't have a WXstationlist.bin in my AppData\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v4 folder. Should that be of concern?

It won't be there on a successful termination of P3D. As I said, FSUIPC deletes it. P3D puts it back next session.

10 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

But I'm also wondering if anything is left over from MyTraffic. It's still installed but not referenced in addons or anything else in P3D.

Don't forget it has a scenery layer too.

11 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It's the fact it crashes on first launch (after the computer is booted) but not after.

That's what made me think of the weather file. But no.

Pete

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

It won't be there on a successful termination of P3D. As I said, FSUIPC deletes it. P3D puts it back next session.

Don't forget it has a scenery layer too.

That's what made me think of the weather file. But no.

Pete

I'll check whilst P3D is running.

Poppett recommended it be installed as an addon, not an entry in scenery.cfg. Definitely nothing in my scenery.cfg.

I installed the whole package. Is there an option to uninstall the client and reinstall the same version? Other than disabling all the addons that's all that's left it seems.

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Hi Pete,

I think I have fixed the problem. Four reboots and P3D ran fine on each occasion, How was it cured? I followed Poppett's advice in the L-M forum to run a file named Delete Generated Files.

This has implications including the following. There may be others that I'm not aware of...

  • The user's EXE.XML and DLL.XML files are deleted.
  • Prepar3D v4.cfg is deleted.
  • All addons are disabled.

I will have to reinstall FSUIPC5, ChasePlane and GoFlight. I'll do them one at a time and test. If P3D does crash before the free flight screen it should be possible to identify which one is the cause.

But I suspect some MyTraffic6 stuff may have been left behind as P3D crashed before the free flight screen when it was enabled.

Fingers remain crossed but it looks encouraging.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot

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I’ve posted on Pete’s forum because as soon as I generated an entry for FSUIPC5 in DLL.XML P3D crashed. Absolutely frustrating. How can running one dll cause P3D to crash?

Depending on what Pete finds my next port of call is the L-M forum.

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12 hours ago, Dirk98 said:

Of course I wholeheartedly retract my statement! And I never meant it to be serious, as everybody around knows it was your (11.11.11.01) one of the best results and suggestions for a 4-Core HT systems running P3Dv4 and  became classic!

Cheers

Now that's what I like to hear - thank you too!

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6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Poppett recommended it be installed as an addon, not an entry in scenery.cfg

Ah, so you constructed the Addons.xml yourself, or used the Lorby-SI AddonManager?

6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I installed the whole package. Is there an option to uninstall the client and reinstall the same version?

Yes, the Client should be listed separately in the Programs & Features app. And the Client .msi should be found in the package unipped from the L-M Download -- or if not you can download just the client separately. When you uninstall take the option to keep your registration.

I've often gone back and forth between versions when testing things and trying to isolate particular errors (during Beta testing).

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

’ve posted on Pete’s forum because as soon as I generated an entry for FSUIPC5 in DLL.XML P3D crashed. Absolutely frustrating. How can running one dll cause P3D to crash?

Strange. It never has been FSUIPC here, nor are there any unexplained or unsolved occurrences reported on my support forum.

In case it's some setting or other in FSUIPC try renaming your INI file so a default one is used.

Pete

 

Edited by Pete Dowson

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13 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I temporarily disabled VSync and Triple Buffering expecting CPU usage to rise but it didn't. Why? 

If you had just looked at that link I gave you all would be clear on the VSync issues!

When switching on and off VSync, you might see no change, or you might see the fps drop and CPU drop. Why? Since VSync sort of limits the fps to the refresh frequency then if you are running past that frequency then it naturally drops to that frequency, cutting out excess lost frames = less work and heat, CPU drops throughput.

However, what you are describing is different, it is that with or without the VSync setting the CPU stays where it is. And so you simply have a flat line elsewhere since VSync makes no difference - does not mean the reason for VSync is invalid. You are only looking at systems on an individual basis and each is unique, especially in the FS arena.

Edited by SteveW

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...so in effect Ray I must say that I would not want your system as it is, seems not to be working right.

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11 minutes ago, SteveW said:

...so in effect Ray I must say that I would not want your system as it is, seems not to be working right.

If you can’t say anything helpful then it’s usually better to say nothing at all.

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12 hours ago, Dirk98 said:

 your (11.11.11.01) one of the best results and suggestions for a 4-Core HT systems running P3Dv4 and  became classic!

The idea is Microsoft and Intel, but it's up to us to work out how to benefit from it.

HT causes too many complicated issues for systems and software so you simply can't assume that's going to be good for all systems. The ones you posted about from the site are all still perfectly valid depending on what addons and system in use. The main thing is you can't tell what's good or bad till you get the PC and check it out, I use custom software to see the inner workings of the system. I supply some of that facility in my popular FS addon.

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3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

If you can’t say anything helpful then it’s usually better to say nothing at all.

Everything I said IS helpful if you only checked it out.

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25 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Ah, so you constructed the Addons.xml yourself, or used the Lorby-SI AddonManager?

Yes, the Client should be listed separately in the Programs & Features app. And the Client .msi should be found in the package unipped from the L-M Download -- or if not you can download just the client separately. When you uninstall take the option to keep your registration.

I've often gone back and forth between versions when testing things and trying to isolate particular errors (during Beta testing).

Strange. It never has been FSUIPC here, nor are there any unexplained or unsolved occurrences reported on my support forum.

In case it's some setting or other in FSUIPC try renaming your INI file so a default one is used.

Pete

 

Hi Pete,

The action of just checking the registrations of FSUIPC5 and WideServer created DLL.XML for me.

I’ll try uninstalling and reinstalling the client. Seems the most logical step at this point. I take it you’ve seen my post in your forum and it gives no clues?

I shall rename the ini first though. Simple things first eh?

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Just now, SteveW said:

Everything I said IS helpful if you only checked it out.

Your last comment certainly wasn’t.

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