4k on a budget?

[fghdgdfdfgfgf 111]

16 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

2K can't be that bad on P3D, I run 1440p on a 5 year old processor and graphics card!

2k is not bad, nor is 4k. Lots of pilots run these settings with great satisfaction. The reference point with my posts was the OP's current sim  settings, as a baseline, to measure performance against the different resolutions.

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

15 hours ago, FunknNasty said:

https://www.asus.com/Product-Compare/?products=BBu4xOGz3eRRHD2B,rLVFJZ0D5oZwhnq1&b=2

with one these monitors you wont need 30Hz or the vsync required to run 30hz.

Why I wouldn't need 30Hz? 

The only reason I want to go 30hz is the fact that P3D needs to run at least 60FPS if you want to completely eliminate stutters. With 30Hz you "only" need 30FPS. With my current setup I can get 30FPS (with appropriate settings) in almost all situations, even with PMDG stuff, but achieving 60FPS is almost impossible (with all the addons running). Since 1/2 refresh rate vsync doesn't work in P3D I was never able to get the same smoothness in P3D that I got in FSX back in the day with the mentioned setting. 

[fghdgdfdfgfgf 111]

5 hours ago, 0Artur0 said:

Why I wouldn't need 30Hz? 

The only reason I want to go 30hz is the fact that P3D needs to run at least 60FPS if you want to completely eliminate stutters. With 30Hz you "only" need 30FPS.

False!

A true statement would look something more like this: 'The only reason I want to go 30hz is the fact that P3D my monitor needs to run at least 60FPS if you want to completely eliminate stutters. With 30Hz you "only" need 30FPS.'

 

Look, the only reason I chimed in was because the thread title caught my eye. 4k is not cheap. And it doesn't matter if the monitor/tv is budget or hi end,.you're going to pay in at least one of two ways and sometimes both, and that is with new hardware or reduced settings.

Because you say you can "get" 30 fps with your current setup at 1080P tells me that you'd be hard pressed to hold 15fps with vsync-on at 30Hz on a 4k screen.

 

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

18 minutes ago, FunknNasty said:

False!

A true statement would look something more like this: 'The only reason I want to go 30hz is the fact that P3D my monitor needs to run at least 60FPS if you want to completely eliminate stutters. With 30Hz you "only" need 30FPS.'

 

Look, the only reason I chimed in was because the thread title caught my eye. 4k is not cheap. And it doesn't matter if the monitor/tv is budget or hi end,.you're going to pay in at least one of two ways and sometimes both, and that is with new hardware or reduced settings.

Because you say you can "get" 30 fps with your current setup at 1080P tells me that you'd be hard pressed to hold 15fps with vsync-on at 30Hz on a 4k screen.

 

You know what I meant. P3D on my monitor, of course. 60Hz monitors need at least 60FPS, 30Hz monitors need 30FPS. So, i7 4790k@4.5 and RTX2080 is not adequate to run P3D on 4K? I'm surprised by that since a lot of people use 4K monitors with GTX1080Ti, so I thought RTX2080 should be good enough. I guess I was wrong on that one.

Back to my question... you recommended two ASUS monitors which do look good and are within my budget. I just don't understand your statement that with those I wouldn't need 30Hz. Why? Would I get the same "smoothness" with those monitors as with 30Hz monitor and 30FPS+? How? 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

2 hours ago, 0Artur0 said:

So, i7 4790k@4.5 and RTX2080 is not adequate to run P3D on 4K? I'm surprised by that since a lot of people use 4K monitors with GTX1080Ti, so I thought RTX2080 should be good enough. I guess I was wrong on that one.

I think you’ll be fine with a single monitor. My GPU’s load is around 30% in 1920*1080 and I’m getting fps in the 40s on the ground and it’s hovering around 60 airborne with VSync enabled.

I appreciate UHD is 4 times the pixels but I would still expect to get close to 50 in UHD airborne. I’ll know early next week.

[SteveW 1,792]

12 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 I’m getting fps in the 40s on the ground and it’s hovering around 60 airborne with VSync enabled.

The point of VSync operation is to hold the fps below what it wants to do - down to the refresh frequency of the monitor. As Toimaz says!

So on a 30Hz monitor when VSync is enabled we would see around 30fps if our settings are not too high, and then when VSync is released we see fps climb to what it wants to do - the test mode to see fps capacity.

So if you are seeing fps between 40 and 60 VSync is not operating.

So sorry if that seems to be arrogant or patronising Ray.

 

 

 

[SteveW 1,792]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 10:51 AM, 0Artur0 said:

Side question.. under system specifications for monitors I often see "vertical frequency" and "horizontal frequency" for Hz. Which one defines that the monitor is 30hz? For example from one of them:

Vertical frequency: 50 ~ 76Hz
Horizontal frequency: 30 ~ 83kHz?

The vertical frequency denotes the natural response of that monitor is 50 - 76 Hz that's the frequency that VSync will look for to determine the time of the next frame which ultimately dictates the ~fps. We can set a profile on the GPU to run it at a division of that frequency.

When we have a 60Hz monitor it may be anything between 55 and 65 HZ so setting a particular limit to 60 might not be precise.

[SteveW 1,792]

As fps increases, the time between frames obviously decreases.

That means the time to the view of the next frame on the monitor is less - where that frame is in time when the GPU completes it with respect to the next frame on the monitor.

When fps is low say below 50, the time between frames creeps up enough to mean that there can be long enough, as the frame completes on the GPU, to the point whereby the next frame comes up on the monitor that is noticeable as a long frame.

If we have a 60Hz monitor and we set VSync and see 40 to 60 fps, the only time we see any effect of VSync is when it reaches 60. By then, there's little time between frames that the long frame is gone anyway.

 

So the pint of VSync on a 40 to 60fps system is to hold it at 40 or less otherwise VSync is not operating..

 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,955]

18 minutes ago, SteveW said:

The point of VSync operation is to hold the fps below what it wants to do - down to the refresh frequency of the monitor. As Toimaz says!

So on a 30Hz monitor when VSync is enabled we would see around 30fps if our settings are not too high, and then when VSync is released we see fps climb to what it wants to do - the test mode to see fps capacity.

So if you are seeing fps between 40 and 60 VSync is not operating.

So sorry if that seems to be arrogant or patronising Ray.

You appear to be stalking me Steve. I can assure you VSync is selecte with Triple Buffering checked. I’m simply reporting what I see.

[SteveW 1,792]

4 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

You appear to be stalking me Steve. I can assure you VSync is selecte with Triple Buffering checked. I’m simply reporting what I see.

Unfortunately - you continue to mis-understand completely the technology of which we are speaking here Ray. I'm not stalking you - you are dismissive and mistaken.

I'm using your unfortunately worded quote as an example of why folk are not understanding the function of VSync. You might have it set =On but it's not coming into operation as I showed you - take it or leave it - it is how P3D operates that's all I can help you with. Unfortunately you're under the wrong impression for a very odd reason I can't even begin to think of.

[SteveW 1,792]

Looking at externally limiting, with for example NCP (Nvidea Control Panel). We see folk mention they found the best setting was say 31 fps with their 30Hz monitor or profile. Remember that the monitor might actually be 32Hz in operation.

So do we set one above or below our monitor frequency? Well, in fact we don't know that the monitor is precisely 30Hz, maybe it's nearer 32.

So looking at the GPU output on an oscilloscope (you all tried that right?) the one below is better, the one above gets angry. We just are not sure if that's 28, 29, 30, or 31.

[SteveW 1,792]

...by the way, newer monitors are more precise these days and support altering the refresh point back to the new frame as it is received, generally at 30Hz or above.

[scottb613 1,188]

Hi Folks,

Regards,
Scott

[SteveW 1,792]

Remember that he's talking about 'Exclusive mode' where tearing is concerned, because the VSync setting in P3D is not vertical sync on or off it is VSync=On/Off which does not control tearing, that vertical sync is under control, of the desktop. Unfortunately the video does not go into the operation of windowed viewports which we are talking about here. Basically a good video for describing the game-screen operation of vsync , that's under the control of the desktop with P3D..

[SteveW 1,792]

So we have to tread carefully where P3D is concerned or we might wonder what 'they' are talking about.

P3D needs a higher level of understanding to get to grips with if you are technically minded.

Also remember that when we see testing of games fps, and the gains they get with certain GPUs or CPUs, is not the same with P3D exactly. Those games are made to order for consoles. So they do stuff in a different way, facet counts are capped for example, but they are not in P3D.