Rob Ainscough

P3D v4.4 and settings ... and video samples from Beta

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I was going to post this in the video section but these aren't really "show case" videos, they are/were testing videos that I thought I'd share.  I plan to do another video later for this thread where I get into detail some of the graphics settings along with some SLI settings (I should say "aimed" at SLI configurations as they can still be used in non-SLI) in the prepar3d.cfg and how to make sure airports don't load/unload when they are relatively close to your position.

Keep in mind these are just tests of 1024 PR textures on a 8700K (no OC) with single 1080Ti and very high graphics settings with "as is" existing add-ons:

and 

There have been additional adjustments and fixes in the final released version of v4.4 since I made these videos so please keep that in mind.  More information to follow...

Cheers, Rob.

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Thanks Rob!

BTW what is the data overlay you use to display the usages and temps as well as FPS?

Joe

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35 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

Wow!!!!

This build is the best in history of LM.. now an get PR Scenery lol

S.

Edited by simbol

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From the change log:-

"Scenery draw distance, including airports, can now be configured. "

Does this mean that scenery no longer pops up around the 10nm mark? I want to see large buildings appear way off in the distance, even if they are only 1 pixel high...

Will PBR scenery textures mean the autogen buildings no longer look so dull, maybe windows will appear a little shiny?

Edited by MatthewS
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2 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

From the change log:-

"Scenery draw distance, including airports, can now be configured. "

Does this mean that scenery no longer pops up around the 10nm mark?

I want to see large buildings appear way off in the distance, even if they are only 1 pixel high...

Go and try it 🙂

S.

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1 hour ago, joepoway said:

BTW what is the data overlay you use to display the usages and temps as well as FPS?

MSI Afterburner ... the overlay doesn't always display (not sure why) ... I seem to get better reliability of the data overlay if I start MSI Afterburner AFTER I start P3D and in a flight.

28 minutes ago, MatthewS said:

Does this mean that scenery no longer pops up around the 10nm mark?

If you have the hardware to support it, yes ... SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE max value is 128000.0000.  64000.0000 will bet set via P3D UI "Max" settings so if you manually edit you MUST NOT go back into the graphics UI and hit Ok otherwise it'll get reset back to 64000.0000.  WARNING, this will be the most FPS demanding setting.

And MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE=32000.0000  (default is 1000.00000) ... both of these should already exist in your prepar3d.cfg.  

[Display]
MaintainSystemCopyOfDeviceTextures=0

This is for Multi-GPU/SLI configurations and should alleviate the case where the 2nd GPU needs to read a texture off disk.

[Graphics]
ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION=0

reduces malloc for AG but increases memory usage

There is another setting, but I'm at work now so don't recall from the top of my head.  But like I suggested, I'll do a full video on what these settings do, the VRAM impact and/or FPS impact.

Cheers, Rob.

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3 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

MSI Afterburner ... the overlay doesn't always display (not sure why) ... I seem to get better reliability of the data overlay if I start MSI Afterburner AFTER I start P3D and in a flight.

If you have the hardware to support it, yes ... SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE max value is 128000.0000, 64000.0000 will bet set via P3D UI Max settings so if you manually edit you MUST NOT go back into the graphics UI and hit Ok otherwise it'll get reset back to 64000.0000.  WARNING, this will be the most FPS demanding setting.

And MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE=32000.0000  (default is 1000.00000) ... both of these should already exist in your prepar3d.cfg.  

[Display]
MaintainSystemCopyOfDeviceTextures=0

This is for Multi-GPU/SLI configurations and should alleviate the case where the 2nd GPU needs to read a texture off disk.

[Graphics]
ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION=0

reduces malloc for AG but increases memory usage

There is another setting, but I'm at work now so don't recall from the top of my head.  But like I suggested, I'll do a full video on what these settings do, the VRAM impact and/or FPS impact.

Cheers, Rob.

Thanks Rob!

Joe

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39 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

 

If you have the hardware to support it, yes ... SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE max value is 128000.0000.  64000.0000 will bet set via P3D UI "Max" settings so if you manually edit you MUST NOT go back into the graphics UI and hit Ok otherwise it'll get reset back to 64000.0000.  WARNING, this will be the most FPS demanding setting.

And MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE=32000.0000  (default is 1000.00000) ... both of these should already exist in your prepar3d.cfg. 

Are those units metres? So 128,000 is 128 km? That would be nice.

Shame they don't have multiple settings, like regular scenery versus auto-gen.

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Rob,

That looks awesome!

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Scenery still turns black (unloads) when I look away with it with TrackIR, I thought you (Rob) said they fixed this?

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Ron, it is fixed, hence the video proof above ... are you using those settings?  One slight correction to my above MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE=320000 (there is no cap on this value, you can go as high as 1000000 if you have VRAM to spare.  There are some limits however per Beau (LM):

There's no cap on this value itself because it's intended as a limit. If you want textures requesting aggressively, you can set it something very high like 1000000. There are two other checks that must pass before textures are requested:
1) Object is within the far clip distance. This varies by altitude.
2) Object pixel size at a given distance passes min radius check. This we made configurable in 4.3 using RS_MIN_OBJECT_PIXEL_RADIUS. (default is 2.0px)

Pay close attention to "Object is within the far clip distance".

Are you SLI or single GPU?  What scenery/add-on are you testing with?  

Obviously it's impossible for me to test this with every add-on made for P3D, but I did test with a few and it worked flawlessly ... here is another such test using FSDT KSFO:

As you can see from this clip/test, KSFO (FSDT) stays loaded.

Cheers, Rob.

EDIT: with that said, if some 3rd party content manages object injection based on distance then not much LM can do about that, they will load and unload (which is most likely a left over from 32bit world)

 

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3 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

[Graphics]
ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION=0

reduces malloc for AG but increases memory usage

Can you expand on this, or can you point me to some info on this?

You say it "reduces mem alloc for AG but increases mem usage", well, how could that be?  If you reduce mem allocation for AG, how are you going to increase memory usage?

I only ask because, I find 4.3's handling of autogen to be almost perfect.  I have no noticeable popping with 4.3 and my 8700K + 1080ti rig, and i don't want that to change with 4.4!

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14 hours ago, Mace said:

Can you expand on this, or can you point me to some info on this?

Sorry, I wasn't clear ... I'll quote exactly what Beau (LM's lead graphics engineer) said:

This one does a few different things. Turning it off will cut down on memory allocations needed for autogen batches at the cost of extra memory. It should also improve loading when changing airports, because it won't unload your textures before changing locations. This will result in a spike of CPU/GPU memory usage during and shortly after changing locations.

Hopefully that's more clear.

Cheers, Rob.

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36 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

Sorry, I wasn't clear ... I'll quote exactly what Beau (LM's lead graphics engineer) said:

This one does a few different things. Turning it off will cut down on memory allocations needed for autogen batches at the cost of extra memory. It should also improve loading when changing airports, because it won't unload your textures before changing locations. This will result in a spike of CPU/GPU memory usage during and shortly after changing locations.

Hopefully that's more clear.

Cheers, Rob.

That's more clear, thanks.  I think I see what they've done -- they have allowed for a reserve of mem to keep some of that data in mem as an option.  Options are good I suppose!

I will not mess with that cfg setting at all, unless I start noticing problems with autogen.  I haven't had any issues with Autogen in P3D in a long time now, so I'm hopeful 4.4 will be the same.

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20 hours ago, Rob Ainscough said:

MSI Afterburner ... the overlay doesn't always display (not sure why) ... I seem to get better reliability of the data overlay if I start MSI Afterburner AFTER I start P3D and in a flight.

If you have the hardware to support it, yes ... SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE max value is 128000.0000.  64000.0000 will bet set via P3D UI "Max" settings so if you manually edit you MUST NOT go back into the graphics UI and hit Ok otherwise it'll get reset back to 64000.0000.  WARNING, this will be the most FPS demanding setting.

And MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE=32000.0000  (default is 1000.00000) ... both of these should already exist in your prepar3d.cfg.  

[Display]
MaintainSystemCopyOfDeviceTextures=0

This is for Multi-GPU/SLI configurations and should alleviate the case where the 2nd GPU needs to read a texture off disk.

[Graphics]
ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION=0

reduces malloc for AG but increases memory usage

There is another setting, but I'm at work now so don't recall from the top of my head.  But like I suggested, I'll do a full video on what these settings do, the VRAM impact and/or FPS impact.

Cheers, Rob.

Rob,

Confirm these are only P3Dv4.4 specific?

Which section is the max scenery draw and max texture draw distance located in?

One thing that drives me nuts is the airport only popping up 8-10 NM out in 4.3 even on my SLI rig thats very high end.

I just got replacement 2080Tis today so will give this a go when you confirm.

Thanks.

Edited by American 833 Heavy

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airports (payware) are turning black when I look away (not far from the airport) and then it loads again when I look at it, is there anyway to fix this?

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13 minutes ago, fakeflyer737 said:

airports (payware) are turning black when I look away (not far from the airport) and then it loads again when I look at it, is there anyway to fix this?

Ron,

Open your Prepar3D.cfg with note pad and try this:

[DISPLAY]

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=120
UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=31
TEXTUREMAXLOAD=12

Increase "TEXTUREMAXLOAD=12"  by 3 until you don't see the reloading.

Hope it works for you.

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53 minutes ago, DJJose said:

Ron,

Open your Prepar3D.cfg with note pad and try this:

[DISPLAY]

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=120
UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=31
TEXTUREMAXLOAD=12

Increase "TEXTUREMAXLOAD=12"  by 3 until you don't see the reloading.

Hope it works for you.

thanks I'll try right now. I put this into the cfg right because it isn't already ther?

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3 hours ago, fakeflyer737 said:

airports (payware) are turning black when I look away (not far from the airport) and then it loads again when I look at it, is there anyway to fix this?

I responded above, did you try those settings?

[GRAPHICS]
ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION=0
MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE=320000.000000
[DISPLAY]
MaintainSystemCopyOfDeviceTextures=0
[SCENERY]
SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE=64000.000000

As I indicated above "Object is within the far clip distance. This varies by altitude" ... this is a restriction ... if you spin your head around a lot and exceed far clip distance then you may still suffer from textures loading/unloading.  But if you have the GPU/CPU processing power experiment with values above.

3 hours ago, American 833 Heavy said:

Confirm these are only P3Dv4.4 specific?

Yes and No.  PR (photoreal) uses the same settings as LC (landclass) now (check Hi Res terrain in P3D) so they are in sync.  With Hi Res unchecked = 256, checked = 512, for 1024 then manual edit of prepar3d.cfg

[TERRAIN]
TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=10

is 1024 (both LC and PR).

[DISPLAY]
MaintainSystemCopyOfDeviceTextures=0

[GRAPHICS]
ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION=0
MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE=320000.000000

[SCENERY]
SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE=64000.000000

These are new for P3D V4.4.  

SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE  -- (New) this value changes with AG distance slider (medium and low) will be 32000 (meters or 32km), at max the value will be 64000 (64km) ... this value can be manually increased to a max of 128000 (128km), be warned there can be significant FPS hit if you go to 128000. Also be aware that if you do manual edits of this value and then go into P3D graphic settings and make "other" unrelated changes and hit OK, it would reset this value to whatever you AG distance slider is currently at.

MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE -- (New) there is no cap on this value, default is 1000 ... experiment, 320000 worked well for my 1080Ti but try high if you have the VRAM to spare

ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION -- (New) I would set this to zero unless you are short on VRAM

MaintainSystemCopyOfDeviceTextures -- (Older) Present in earlier versions of P3D and defaults to 1, setting to 0 is primarily useful for multiple-GPUs so that copies of textures don't have to be pull from disk when needed

TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP -- (Older) Expanded to include PR (photoreal) ... the ONLY time you should be using this entry is if you want 1024 PR/LC textures, it is NOT required for 512 or 256, and in fact should no exist as an entry if you use 256 (Hi Res Tiles unchecked).

RS_MIN_OBJECT_PIXEL_RADIUS -- (Older) Available in V4.3 and v4.4 - default is 2.0, I've tried 1.0 and didn't notice much difference, experiment ... this setting should already exists in the Prepar3d.cfg.

Cheers, Rob.

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1 hour ago, DJJose said:

Ron,

Open your Prepar3D.cfg with note pad and try this:

[DISPLAY]

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=120
UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=31
TEXTUREMAXLOAD=12

Increase "TEXTUREMAXLOAD=12"  by 3 until you don't see the reloading.

These settings will make no difference, please see my response above to Ron.

Cheers, Rob.

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8 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

I responded above, did you try those settings?

[GRAPHICS]
ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION=0
MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE=320000.000000
[DISPLAY]
MaintainSystemCopyOfDeviceTextures=0
[SCENERY]
SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE=64000.000000

As I indicated above "Object is within the far clip distance. This varies by altitude" ... this is a restriction ... if you spin your head around a lot and exceed far clip distance then you may still suffer from textures loading/unloading.  But if you have the GPU/CPU processing power experiment with values above.

Yes and No.  PR (photoreal) uses the same settings as LC (landclass) now (check Hi Res terrain in P3D) so they are in sync.  With Hi Res unchecked = 256, checked = 512, for 1024 then manual edit of prepar3d.cfg

[TERRAIN]
TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=10

is 1024 (both LC and PR).

[DISPLAY]
MaintainSystemCopyOfDeviceTextures=0

[GRAPHICS]
ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION=0
MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE=320000.000000

[SCENERY]
SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE=64000.000000

These are new for P3D V4.4.  

SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE  -- (New) this value changes with AG distance slider (medium and low) will be 32000 (meters or 32km), at max the value will be 64000 (64km) ... this value can be manually increased to a max of 128000 (128km), be warned there can be significant FPS hit if you go to 128000. Also be aware that if you do manual edits of this value and then go into P3D graphic settings and make "other" unrelated changes and hit OK, it would reset this value to whatever you AG distance slider is currently at.

MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE -- (New) there is no cap on this value, default is 1000 ... experiment, 320000 worked well for my 1080Ti but try high if you have the VRAM to spare

ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION -- (New) I would set this to zero unless you are short on VRAM

MaintainSystemCopyOfDeviceTextures -- (Older) Present in earlier versions of P3D and defaults to 1, setting to 0 is primarily useful for multiple-GPUs so that copies of textures don't have to be pull from disk when needed

TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP -- (Older) Expanded to include PR (photoreal) ... the ONLY time you should be using this entry is if you want 1024 PR/LC textures, it is NOT required for 512 or 256, and in fact should not existing as an entry if you use 256 (Hi Res Tiles unchecked).

RS_MIN_OBJECT_PIXEL_RADIUS -- (Older) Available in V4.3 and v4.4 - default is 2.0, I've tried 1.0 and didn't notice much difference, experiment ... this setting should already exists in the Prepar3d.cfg.

Cheers, Rob.

Hi Rob

First thanks again, a couple of questions

Can you tell me with a little more detail what "max texture request distance" actual does in terms of what I would notice?

Will it have a significant frames impact if set higher or is it just vram, my 1070 has 8Gb of ram? 

Also I assume if the max texture setting is increased with the addition of "enable memory optimization" set to zero this would be a compounding affect and then a vram situation could arise?

Thanks in advance

Joe

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17 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

 

These settings will make no difference, please see my response above to Ron.

Cheers, Rob.

Thanks Rob. 

 

Is there anything we can do about "z-fighting" or rapid texture flickering (ie FlightBeam KSFO)?

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10 minutes ago, joepoway said:

Can you tell me with a little more detail what "max texture request distance" actual does in terms of what I would notice?

Will it have a significant frames impact if set higher or is it just vram, my 1070 has 8Gb of ram? 

Also I assume if the max texture setting is increased with the addition of "enable memory optimization" set to zero this would be a compounding affect and then a vram situation could arise?

It's more about what you would NOT notice ... textures will load and have a better chance of staying loaded from very far away provided the memory limit value has not been exceeded.

I haven't noticed any FPS hit from this setting, but if you exceed VRAM then you will see a performance drop.  Do NOT use TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP if you have 8GB VRAM or less. The other settings should be fine, experiment and see what works best for your hardware.

The ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION is different, but you can expect to see more VRAM usage with it set to ZERO.

The setting that will impact FPS the most is SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE 

Cheers, Rob.

16 minutes ago, fakeflyer737 said:

Is there anything we can do about "z-fighting" or rapid texture flickering

In the camera config file you can try changing:

NearClipOverride    float    Greater than zero.
Default: Variable    Overrides the near clip plane of the camera. Units are in meters. Setting a near clip value too low could potentially cause z-fighting in the distance due to lose of depth buffer precision.
    
FarClipOverride    float    Greater than zero.
Default: Variable    Overrides the far clip plane of the camera. Units are in meters. This value should be large enough to cover the distance desired to be visible to the camera. If NearClipOverride is used, the FarClipOverride value should be larger than the NearClipOverride value.

Per learning center docs: https://www.prepar3d.com/SDKv4/sdk/cameras/camera_configuration.html

NearClipOverride - increase the value to the highest value required to resolve the z-fighting ... be aware it can "clip" objects close to you if you increase the value.  Range is usually 1.0 to 5.0 ... you'll need it to be set per defined camera in camera.cfg.

Cheers, Rob.

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9 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

It's more about what you would NOT notice ... textures will load and have a better chance of staying loaded from very far away provided the memory limit value has not been exceeded.

I haven't noticed any FPS hit from this setting, but if you exceed VRAM then you will see a performance drop.  Do NOT use TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP if you have 8GB VRAM or less. The other settings should be fine, experiment and see what works best for your hardware.

The ENABLE_MEMORY_OPTIMIZATION is different, but you can expect to see more VRAM usage with it set to ZERO.

The setting that will impact FPS the most is SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE 

Cheers, Rob.

Again thanks Rob!

I was aware not to use Texture_Size_Exp

I have another question: where is the Enable_Memory_Optimization entry in the config file?

I found and edited the Max_Texture... entry but cannot find the Enable_Memory.. in the [Graphics] section or anywhere else? 

Is it an entry that I must add to the [Graphics] section?

Joe

Edited by joepoway

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