PaulFWatts

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+1 for Navigraph. 

I cannot fly out of date databases no matter what it is. 

 

I'll hold off my purchase until that has been doubt with. 
Thanks you!

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First of all, everyone should understand that the default P3d4 ATC doesn't use SIDs and STARs, so if one uses that, then there is no problem with the implementation of the G1000. But all the 3rd party ATC add-ons use arrivals and departures as do all the online ATC services. 

With fsaerodata installed, the latest AIRAC enroute and terminal waypoints should be correct and visible in the G1000 and if one has an idea of the departure and arrival runways, one can add them on the fly so to speak. It will take running Little Navmap in parallel so one can figure the waypoints out. At least there's a temporary workaround available.

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I appreciate the official reply that answers my correct concern about NAVDATA that I was the first to voice....I'm glad I did, and I'm glad we now all have the correct and good facts.

Surprising how even people on the beta team had no complete or correct knowledge about this very important subject, yet speaking with authority and absolution. I advise for the next time, to first find out for sure.

Whether Navigraph or FSAerodata does not matter to me as long as complete and up to date procedures are available. To get FSAerodata data, one has to have a subscription from Navigraph. Since aero.sors is available for free still and used by many, Navigraph would seem to be the "kindest to all customers" way to go, but I leave that to smarter people than me, the result is what matters most to me.

The obvious hard work that went into this rendition of the DA62 and dedication to excellence is worthy of support. So even though SID/STARS are not available at this time, I will support all the effort put forth so far...day 1 purchase for me. 

A most excellent response from an incredible and very appreciated developer.

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25 minutes ago, pracines said:

Surprising how even people on the beta team had no complete or correct knowledge about this very important subject, yet speaking with authority and absolution. I advise for the next time, to first find out for sure.

The only person qualified and authorized to post on this and most matters is Sean. I shared what I could and nothing more.

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1 hour ago, jabloomf1230 said:

With fsaerodata installed, the latest AIRAC enroute and terminal waypoints should be correct and visible in the G1000 and if one has an idea of the departure and arrival runways, one can add them on the fly so to speak. It will take running Little Navmap in parallel so one can figure the waypoints out. At least there's a temporary workaround available.

First of all, thanks for your explanations.

Unfortunately, as outlined before, I do not use FSAerodata yet. Someone mentioned, it needs an active subscription for both FSAerodata and Navigraph during later re-install, even for older AIRACS already "owned"? Is that true?

Anyway, if I find a solution regarding using FSAerodata, I can try to help concerning this complex topic with screenshots or short videos regarding the DA62...

 

52 minutes ago, pracines said:

Surprising how even people on the beta team had no complete or correct knowledge about this very important subject, yet speaking with authority and absolution. I advise for the next time, to first find out for sure.

...but it does not have to be, if I think about it again, regardless which problems you have, I do not want to know. Saves me a lot of effort and time.

Edited by rudi0310
typos

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25 minutes ago, rudi0310 said:

...but it does not have to be, if I think about it again, regardless which problems you have, I do not want to know. Saves me a lot of effort and time.

I have an interest in realism that you may object to, but I would not object to your interest in a lack of realism. Thank you for trying to answer my interests, and thank you for your part in the beta test.

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1 hour ago, rudi0310 said:

Unfortunately, as outlined before, I do not use FSAerodata yet. Someone mentioned, it needs an active subscription for both FSAerodata and Navigraph during later re-install, even for older AIRACS already "owned"? Is that true?

Anyway, if I find a solution regarding using FSAerodata, I can try to help concerning this complex topic with screenshots or short videos regarding the DA62...

Yes your need two subscriptions. Think about it. Navigraph will provide AIRAC updates to any Navigraph-aware add-on. So one needs a Navigraph subscription. But fsaerodata is an app also. You have to buy fsaerodata, just like one would buy the DA-62, a PMDG aircraft or an ATC add-on. If you buy fsaerodata you get a whole years worth of updates to AIRAC cycles.  You can't just buy it once and expect an infinite number of updates. The conversion process from Navigraph data to P3d/FSX data format is very complicated and I'm actually surprised how inexpensive fsaerodata is for a one year subscription, given all the work that is involved. Every time that Navigraph updates its database, fsaerodata has to go through this complex conversion process to update the sim's database. And some people wonder why LM doesn't do this itself. It would require changing the entire database structure of all the airport BGL files.  Further, fsaerodata has one additional advantage over not using it. The information "on the ground" with regard to navigation data matches what is seen in the aircraft. Without fsaerodata, only 3rd party payware airports would show recent AIRAC information. The author of fsaerodata is working on another project which additionally updates the taxiway and runway geometry of the default P3d4 airports:

https://www.fsaerodata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=136

Anyway, another point that I want to make is that if Sean wants to to find out what it takes to create a Navigraph format for the DA62, he should contact the developer of the freeware app, Little NavMap, Alexander Barthel. He did it recently. 

https://albar965.github.io/index.html

The Navigraph request process is not that complicated, but it was time consuming, at least in the case of LNM. You have to explain the structure of your proposed navigation database. Alternatively, I believe that you can use someone else's existing format, but you'd have to check with Navigraph on that, so as to avoid any intellectual property issues.

Edited by jabloomf1230

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Beta testers don't typically earn favour (or last very long!) by speaking of their developers' products without permission. Rudi, Ryan B and DJJose have done their best to provide us information within limits and I feel any criticism of them for not being 100% to the point is a little unfair.

Sean, however, has been very candid in his post about the product that we can expect on release day. The word 'integrity' has been mentioned with respect to his approach and I 100% agree with this.

My take: I'm a tiny bit disappointed to hear SID/STARs and TCAS won't be featured right off the bat, but it will not really stop me from enjoying the product in the interim. I will buy on day 1 because I have confidence that Sean will work towards adding these features as time goes on. His work on Realair products and the ongoing support for those aircraft is a pretty strong basis on which to have that confidence.

Sean, for when it does come around, my vote would be for Navigraph. It might be the harder route to take from a coding standpoint, but it's ultimately a superior solution. Very much looking forward to seeing the DA-62 soon in any event!

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The beta testers have all been great, without exception. As far as I can see they’ve all answered queries to the best of their knowledge with the intent of helping others in the community, and sharing their enthusiasm. They’ve all provided their help on a volunteer basis. I just want to say how much I appreciate their help.

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Here - I thought the release is out.  Still waiting for release day.  I cancelled a scenery order so I can buy this addon.

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13 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Yes your need two subscriptions. Think about it. Navigraph will...

Thanks for your very detailed and very interesting insight into FSAerodata's work and your help. No worry, I am not one on these guys who are fast in judging or even blaming others. Of course I admit, that it is one criteria for me, when I will give FSAerodata a try. I consider FSAerodata as very interesting, the price is OK, absolutely,  but at the moment I need no actual AIRAC. After the usual "flightsimmer-career", which ended up in PMDG's 747, I went "back to the roots", more or less to fly aircraft sizes I have flown in real, or could, see my youtube channel. In these areas there are not even waypoints, runways down to 300 ft in length, or no runway at all. But still fly heavies also, complete with STARs and that stuff. My personal view regarding navigation sources for the DA62 I explain in detail in my video  https://youtu.be/f_0YnlbTMH8 , starts at 24:41.

Edited by rudi0310
typos

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Rudi,

If one flies between payware 3rd party airports exclusively, fsaerodata is not needed. It just improves the IFR  flightsim experience when flying either to or from a default airport.

Jay

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1 hour ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Rudi,

If one flies between payware 3rd party airports exclusively, fsaerodata is not needed. It just improves the IFR  flightsim experience when flying either to or from a default airport.

Jay

Actually that may not be completely true, depending on ones needs. FSAerodata updates all the communication frequencies and airspace between airports worldwide.

here is the complete list from the website:

 

Features:

Worldwide update of flight simulator navigation database including the following elements: 

• Navaids: VORs, DME, NDB, TACAN, Enroute and Terminal Waypoints, (update identification IDs, frequency, coordinates, magnetic variation).

• Instrument Approaches, including SIDs and STARs procedures. Ability to fly curved radius-to-fix (RF) legs Approaches.

New on cycle 1808: Full database of VRP (Visual Reporting Points), with >5,000 waypoints mostly in Europe.

• Airways Routes, including High and Low altitude airways.

Update of world's airspace: controlled (Class A-G, CTR, CTA, TMA, Radar, ATZ, Airways sectors,...) and restricted ( including among them MATZ sectors). 

Update of main enroute ARTCC / FIR Flight Information Regions, including boundaries, frequencies, names, locations.

• Full coverage of ARTCC / FIR real-world sectoring, including altitudes and center frequencies, for following countries: US, Canada and Europe.

Update of Airport Comm Frequencies worldwide.

• Access to SIDs & STARs procedures on default GPS navigation unit (only Prepar3D).

• Update of Runway designators.

• Update of Airport Names and ICAO identifiers (more than 650 ICAO idents worldwide).

• ILS stations: update of frequency, name, Identifier, Magvar, correct heading acc published charts, DME and glideslope station. New stations added.

Obsolete Navaids are disabled.

• Simulation of TACAN facilities (only Prepar3D).

• Air Traffic Control (ATC): Selection and aircraft vectoring of final approaches based on updated database.

• Capability to successfully execute real-world routes.

• Fully Compatible with new Prepar3D V4.

• Auto update of Magnetic Variation Table (MagVar) on flight simulator.

• Please note, fsAerodata does not update 3rd party add-ons airport data.

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6 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Rudi,

If one flies between payware 3rd party airports exclusively, fsaerodata is not needed. It just improves the IFR  flightsim experience when flying either to or from a default airport.

Jay

Jay,

thanks for the hint.

Btw not only for mountain flyers looking for new challenges I recommend the Andes in South America as an ideal playground for the DA62, covered by stunning landscapes, when ORBX openLC and Holgermesh used. Many have no problems that most airports are default.

Rudi

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6 minutes ago, rudi0310 said:

 

Btw not only for mountain flyers looking for new challenges I recommend the Andes in South America as an ideal playground for the DA62, covered by stunning landscapes, when ORBX openLC and Holgermesh used. Many have no problems that most airports are default.

 

I would suggest ORBX NZSI as a similarly fantastic environment for GA flying. Throw NZQN and NZMF in the mix and you've got some really challenging places to take the new 'Aerial SUV'!

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28 minutes ago, markadeane said:

I would suggest ORBX NZSI as a similarly fantastic environment for GA flying. Throw NZQN and NZMF in the mix and you've got some really challenging places to take the new 'Aerial SUV'!

Fully agree. Nice. Popular. The 3-airport pack NZMF is one of the few payware-airports I own. A friend of mine who lives there hates it, myriads of flies he says.

But in South America many areas you takeoff at 8000 ft or more and have to climb above 15000 ft, a completely different story I also performed takeoff tests there. At 15000 ft. Recorded first hypoxia clip there. Only one thing to look at, a really long takeoff run at a default airport....  I think South America many people have not on the radar yet.

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11 minutes ago, rudi0310 said:

Fully agree. Nice. Popular. The 3-airport pack NZMF is one of the few payware-airports I own. A friend of mine who lives there hates it, myriads of flies he says.

It's an incredibly rainy environment, sandflies and mosquitoes are a big feature of Milford sound but it is a beautiful location. Of the three airfields in the NZMF pack, Quentin strip is my favourite with the blind approach and significant slope.

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Besides the mosquitoes in South Africa, any idea if we may get it this week? Keeping updating this thread for some release news. 😀

Edited by Daedalus

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41 minutes ago, markadeane said:

It's an incredibly rainy environment, sandflies and mosquitoes are a big feature of Milford sound but it is a beautiful location. Of the three airfields in the NZMF pack, Quentin strip is my favourite with the blind approach and significant slope.

Quentin is getting close with the DA62. Rwy length there might be 1500 ft? Hard to say. I have set autogen trees high, therefore high obstacles. Regarding the DA62, skilled pilots should have minimum about 1400 ft rwy available. Skilled bush pilots which are not limited to POH values should have minimum 1200 ft (no obstacles, 2000 kgs, ISA, sea level). Takeoff roll distance is abt. 1200 ft that means w/o obstacles.

This are very rough first values to get a first idea only and depend on many factors. No guarantee.

Daedalus, no news at the moment.

Edited by rudi0310
takeoff roll changed
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27 minutes ago, rudi0310 said:

Quentin is getting close with the DA62. Rwy length there might be 1500 ft? Hard to say. I have set autogen trees high, therefore high obstacles. Regarding the DA62, skilled pilots should have minimum about 1400 ft rwy available. Skilled bush pilots which are not limited to POH values should have minimum 1200 ft (no obstacles, 2000 kgs, ISA, sea level). Takeoff roll distance is abt. 1200 ft that means w/o obstacles.

This are very rough first values to get a first idea only and depend on many factors. No guarantee.

Daedalus, no news at the moment.

Rudi, Quintin (sorry I spelled it incorrectly before) isn't charted in our Aeronautical Publications but appears on our Visual Navigation Charts. My info suggests it's about 520m long, but the bottom of the strip is only marginally useful. Slope is 5.2% so you'd probably get in there, but not out! 

And forget about a go around!

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13 minutes ago, markadeane said:

Rudi, Quintin (sorry I spelled it incorrectly before) isn't charted in our Aeronautical Publications but appears on our Visual Navigation Charts. My info suggests it's about 520m long, but the bottom of the strip is only marginally useful. Slope is 5.2% so you'd probably get in there, but not out! 

And forget about a go around!

No problem. NZMF and something with Q, was clear for me what you wanted to say. Do you have a link to official maps?

Tested it for you. No problem to land and to takeoff with the DA62. Feels like about 1500 ft in len. Correct. Was flying a lot in Nz south a few moths ago. Found a lot of things. The Comalco Aluminum Smelter. They need 30 % of the electric power of the entire South Island! And the power plant that comes from. Manapour power station. Buried. Funny. I am always interested where I am flying.

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@rudi0310 any updates on release.  I figured with all the clues yesterday that today would be the launch day?

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47 minutes ago, rudi0310 said:

No problem. NZMF and something with Q, was clear for me what you wanted to say. Do you have a link to official maps?

Tested it for you. No problem to land and to takeoff with the DA62. Feels like about 1500 ft in len. Correct. Was flying a lot in Nz south a few moths ago. Found a lot of things. The Comalco Aluminum Smelter. They need 30 % of the electric power of the entire South Island! And the power plant that comes from. Manapour power station. Buried. Funny. I am always interested where I am flying.

NZ aerodrome charts are at http://www.aip.net.nz but Quintin isn't published, and the visual nav charts aren't available online sadly.

Manapouri power station is amazing, the generation room is 200m below a mountain. You can take guided tours down there but I was constantly thinking about how much rock was between me and daylight!

Good to know re: the DA-62 into Quintin. Definitely going to try that!

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How about this destination?

 

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