SWAPPED F1 TO RXP GTN750 (DB discussion)

[JRBarrett 3,070]

25 minutes ago, himmelhorse said:

Hello all,

I am an F1 GTN user. I have to admit when I purchased I could not see a great deal of difference, other than F1 "complete" including the 650 and that combination was cheaper the RXP. So price made the difference. 

One thing, however, annolys the .... out of me is the fact that there are no airport charts other than North America (lucky NA I guess)  and this, I believe is a Garmin problem anyway I think. I actually bought because every promo or youtube video I saw before purchase actually showed the Airport charts on screen, and this is something I saw as a bit of a scam. 

Does RXP suffer the same fate with airport charts?

Garmin only included NA airport charts in the trainer program that is used as the core of both the F1 and RXP units, so they are the only ones available. The trainer was produced first and foremost as a demo and familiarization platform for Garmin GTN owners (or potential owners), not as a flight simulator add on, though we are all very fortunate that it can be used that way.

I don’t think the real GTN is capable of holding approach charts for the entire world at one time in any case. Pilots who use the GTN in their aircraft will usually buy a chart subscription only for the region they normally fly in. 

A worldwide navigation database is an option for the real GTN, (and that is what is included in the trainer, and by extension, in the F1 and RXP units), but again, most real GTN owners probably subscribe only to regional navigation data. In general, the types of aircraft where a GTN system would typically be found would not be flying international routes, so there are probably not many GTN owners who would want to pay the subscription cost for the full worldwide database. The regional databases are less expensive.

In any case, as an owner of both GTN add-ons, I much prefer the RXP unit. It has the newer database and other advanced features due to the newer Garmin trainer - and on top of that RXP has added many customization options not found in the competing product. And, the customer support provided by Jean-Luc is outstanding!

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Jim,

Thanks for that.  I understand that one would have to know somebody in OZ or Indonesia (where I fly almost exclusively) or purchase a subscription for those areas ... again, I understand the cost would be about USD300.00 per year so definitely not worth it as a purchase.

I was also aware of  the Jean-Luc extraordinary performances in the support area as that is extremely well documented and I don't think much gets away from him. An outstanding erxample of what "support" should be like.

As I said, I (mistakenly???) purchased the GTN on price alone, but I have to say that I am happy with my purchase and the product has so far, been performing flawlessly, so sup[port thus far, has not been an issue.

Regards

Tony

 

[DavidP 1,410]

7 hours ago, himmelhorse said:

I understand that one would have to know somebody in OZ or Indonesia (where I fly almost exclusively) or purchase a subscription for those areas

The GTN's only use Garmin Flite Charts, and there are none that I can see on flyGarmin for Oceania/Pacific.

I have a real Jeppview subscription for my G500 to display Jepp charts on my MFD.

Jim  is quite right in his post above. The vast majority of GTN users would use regional databases - for two reasons - the aircraft they fly wouldn't need a worldwide database and the other is that the worldwide database now excludes most "smaller" airports with runways less than 4000 feet (I think that is the figure), as the database size is too large.

Regional databases however, retain these smaller airfields most likely to be used by these aircraft. If I were flying for real internationally, I would be purchasing the regional databases covering the areas I'm flying.

 

[JRBarrett 3,070]

2 hours ago, DavidP said:

The GTN's only use Garmin Flite Charts, and there are none that I can see on flyGarmin for Oceania/Pacific.

I have a real Jeppview subscription for my G500 to display Jepp charts on my MFD.

Jim  is quite right in his post above. The vast majority of GTN users would use regional databases - for two reasons - the aircraft they fly wouldn't need a worldwide database and the other is that the worldwide database now excludes most "smaller" airports with runways less than 4000 feet (I think that is the figure), as the database size is too large.

Regional databases however, retain these smaller airfields most likely to be used by these aircraft. If I were flying for real internationally, I would be purchasing the regional databases covering the areas I'm flying.

 

The problem of having to eliminate smaller airports from the chart subscription affects other manufacturer’s systems too. Our company has two aircraft with a Honeywell Primus 2000 flight deck. A few years ago, we upgraded all the flight deck displays from CRT to LCD, models. The new LCD units come with the ability to display Jeppesen charts. 

We do occasionally fly internationally, and initially had a worldwide charts subscription for all airports with 4,000 foot runways and above. But, every month, dozens and dozens of brand new RNAV/GPS approaches come out, and due to memory constraints in the displays, they are running out of storage space.

Every few months we get a notice from Jeppesen that “due to Primus Elite memory constraints, the minimum runway length has been increased”. First 4,500 feet, then 5,000 feet etc. I believe we are now up to 6,000 feet minimum for charts to be included in the monthly database, so we are going to go to a regional subscription, as we are starting to lose charts for US airports we fly into all of the time.

[DavidP 1,410]

6 hours ago, JRBarrett said:

The problem of having to eliminate smaller airports from the chart subscription affects other manufacturer’s systems too. Our company has two aircraft with a Honeywell Primus 2000 flight deck. A few years ago, we upgraded all the flight deck displays from CRT to LCD, models. The new LCD units come with the ability to display Jeppesen charts. 

We do occasionally fly internationally, and initially had a worldwide charts subscription for all airports with 4,000 foot runways and above. But, every month, dozens and dozens of brand new RNAV/GPS approaches come out, and due to memory constraints in the displays, they are running out of storage space.

Every few months we get a notice from Jeppesen that “due to Primus Elite memory constraints, the minimum runway length has been increased”. First 4,500 feet, then 5,000 feet etc. I believe we are now up to 6,000 feet minimum for charts to be included in the monthly database, so we are going to go to a regional subscription, as we are starting to lose charts for US airports we fly into all of the time.

Wow, I didn't realise that it affected avionics up to that level!

[DavidP 1,410]

17 hours ago, himmelhorse said:

Does RXP suffer the same fate with airport charts?

Tony, you do know you can get airport charts on line at

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/dap/AeroProcChartsTOC.htm

if that helps.

[himmelhorse 1,276]

David,

Yes mate, I was aware of that.  What I was looking for though, was charts available through the GTN (as depicted in the promos for the GTN) Basically something that is inherent in the product without having to go into different programs to get the charts.

In the same vein, I would assume that the all or most of the EFB programs would also feature the airport diagrams required, but again, that is not built in to the GTN and instantly available.

I also very freely acknowledge that this is not an RXP or F1 problem and that it lies firmly in the lap of Garmin, which is in itself a great program too.

In reality, I guess it is all just wishful thinking and I think everyone is aware that there are workarounds availlable.

Thanks for your reply

Tony

Edited December 2, 2018 by RXP

[DavidP 1,410]

Unfortunately it all is a compromise all round given the Trainer was meant for real users to familiarise with their equipment. I use it a lot as Garmin release updates to the real GTN software.

[himmelhorse 1,276]

Hello to all,

I think I have somewhat hi-jacked this topic and as such this will be my last comment. The topic started by the OP is great and does not deserve to be side tracked.

I would like to say that I have very much appreciated the comments by all the contributers who have responded to my comments.

Thank you all

regards

Tony