Rockliffe

Pauses Finally Cured?

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I think it is related somehow to many different aspects but coming all together on one particular thing: the stutters appear as soon as the simulator is somehow flooded/overwhelmed with calls for whatever. Obviously, on certain machines, this already happens if too many simconnect calls are made, some only observe it related to the sheer amount of sceneries, some due to huge global coverage products and some simply due to too high settings.

Currently, I have only very limited pauses and mostly due to either initial loading of the destination airport scenery or due to my rather big AI traffic. Otherwise, there are no pauses, if I disable AI traffic and fly in a local manner (e.g. for some sightseeing with a GA plane), I have no pauses at all. In such a scenario, my sim is not overloaded or flooded with anything obviously...

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34 minutes ago, AnkH said:

I think it is related somehow to many different aspects but coming all together on one particular thing: the stutters appear as soon as the simulator is somehow flooded/overwhelmed with calls for whatever. Obviously, on certain machines, this already happens if too many simconnect calls are made, some only observe it related to the sheer amount of sceneries, some due to huge global coverage products and some simply due to too high settings.

Currently, I have only very limited pauses and mostly due to either initial loading of the destination airport scenery or due to my rather big AI traffic. Otherwise, there are no pauses, if I disable AI traffic and fly in a local manner (e.g. for some sightseeing with a GA plane), I have no pauses at all. In such a scenario, my sim is not overloaded or flooded with anything obviously...

In my case the simulator may well have been, as you have put it, somehow flooded/overwhelmed with calls from GSX (and possibly SODE) which is disappointing since these are intended for use at airfields other than those developed by FSDT and hence the problem may be repeated elsewhere other than at FSDT JFK.

If anyone else has had a similar experience with GSX (the latest version), please post your findings here.

P.S. I have now posted on the FSDT forum lest they have any words of wisdom about GSX etc.

Edited by LecLightning56

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I don't own GSX and during previous tests I was getting repeatable pauses in exactly the same locations with only Orbx global products like textures and land class packages and all their regions. No other airports installed so no SODE, no AI Traffic installed and no weather add-on installed or running. Plus ALL SIM settings on their minimum or off. These are not stutters, as the SIM can be running smoothly, but full blown pauses were the SIM completely stops between 1 and 8 seconds. Even with just the above sceneries enabled gave me 8s pauses in a certain location on South coast of England. Switching 80% of them off is the only way to reduce that pause down to 1s or 0.5s if I'm lucky. Switching all add on scenery off means no pause. Remember this evening happens with all settings on lowest so everything is super sparse with extremely blurry ground textures so zero load on system. When monitoring GPU activity everything goes to zero during the pauses 

Chris

Edited by cj-ibbotson

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5 hours ago, LecLightning56 said:

I have had terrible stutters and pauses recently landing on e.g. RW31L with FSDT New York v2 using P3D v4.4 with e.g. the PMDG 737-800NGX. This was with Orbx FTX Global, Orbx LC North America and the DD New York City installed (very nice but only Lite version installed). The installation of P3D v4.4 was only by way of updating the Client and Content not a full installation.

I decided to uninstall everything (including P3D v4.4) and start afresh with a full installation of P3D v4.4. In the absence of FSDT New York v2 and with only the default scenery and default JFK airport, the same approach was repeated and NO stutters and pauses were experienced. I then reinstalled FSDT New York v2 (which demands installation of SODE and GSX), repeated the same approach and the same stutters and pauses returned (the main pause is long at about 3-4 seconds, VERY annoying on the approach). At this stage no Orbx scenery has been installed. I then decided to uninstall GSX and SODE (only interested in the approach) and repeated the same approach again, this time butter smooth and no stutters or pauses. Whereas one's experiences may be machine-dependent, the process of elimination I have been through has pinpointed the culprit to GSX or SODE or possibly both causing the stutters and pauses, not the FSDT scenery for JFK per se. Also at this stage, LM and Orbx are exonerated from the proceedings since I have proved the default scenery works fine out of the box and Orbx has not been reinstalled.

Other than a full uninstall of GSX, is there a way of disabling GSX without such measures to avoid these issues? How could GSX influence the behaviour at lower altitude nearing the airfield? There have been reports of SODE causing stutters but I thought that had been fixed in the latest 1.6.3 version.

My specs are very modest with an Intel 875K turbo-boosted and overclocked to 4GHz, GTX 1070 with 8GB RAM and 16GB DDR4 memory cards installed. 

Oh, by the way, I have used no tweaks in the cfg file or use of Vsync etc.

Now I have started to reinstall Orbx and all is well with FTX Global (no stutters/pauses), but with LC North America a small but largely imperceptible stutter occurs at 500-600 feet above ground level. In my case the worst offender appears to have been the influence of GSX causing a massive pause on the approach to FSDT JFK which just makes the experience a bit of a joke.

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3 hours ago, LecLightning56 said:

GSX causing a massive pause on the approach to FSDT JFK which just makes the experience a bit of a joke.

Hmm, now this is interesting as GSX has not until now, unless I'm mistaken, had the finger pointed at it. I wonder how many sufferers of these pauses have GSX installed... 

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3 hours ago, Rockliffe said:

Hmm, now this is interesting as GSX has not until now, unless I'm mistaken, had the finger pointed at it. I wonder how many sufferers of these pauses have GSX installed... 

I don't have GSX yet get long pauses. How long has GSX been around as Rob posted about getting them back in 2015?

Chris

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1 hour ago, cj-ibbotson said:

I don't have GSX yet get long pauses. How long has GSX been around as Rob posted about getting them back in 2015?

Chris

Ah, so much for that theory! 😒 

 

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15 hours ago, AnkH said:

I think it is related somehow to many different aspects but coming all together on one particular thing: the stutters appear as soon as the simulator is somehow flooded/overwhelmed with calls for whatever.

Yup, no one has been able to pinpoint what it is exactly..

It is not legitimate scenery loading activity, but rather some kind of re-indexing caused by what...?  :unsure:

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I had my first "long pause" experience just a bit ago. It wasn't a mere 8 seconds, more like 15 or 20. I was convinced it was locked up. I do have a Lot of Orbx and SODE, but I've had all that for quite a while. The only thing I was doing out of the ordinary was running the GTN 750 and a GTN 650.   

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36 minutes ago, jimcarrel said:

I had my first "long pause" experience just a bit ago. It wasn't a mere 8 seconds, more like 15 or 20. I was convinced it was locked up. I do have a Lot of Orbx and SODE, but I've had all that for quite a while. The only thing I was doing out of the ordinary was running the GTN 750 and a GTN 650.   

I have been testing with the default Mooney.. no GPS addons..

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11 hours ago, cj-ibbotson said:

I don't have GSX yet get long pauses. How long has GSX been around as Rob posted about getting them back in 2015?

Chris

All I can say is that one's own particular experience may be dependent on the environment in which you operate: in my case with Orbx LC scenery loaded and the FSDT KJFK v2 scenery, the cause of the long pause on the approach was definitely GSX (not SODE) and now I can land anywhere with this combination of scenery with buttery smooth performance and no stutters or pauses whatsoever with GSX uninstalled. If you spare the time to isolate possible causes of such issues you may well identify something eventually, as I did. That said, I think this is not a particularly productive way forward governing the time spent eliminating such issues when one should be enjoying a professional product which you would hope and expect to be largely free of major hiccups. I do hope that the underlying causes of our problems are formally identified at some point and progress can be made in optimising code by developers to prevent the worst experiences from arising in the first place. But yes, I do agree that when major pauses are encountered this does detract from our enjoyment of the simulator and more particularly (and critically) when they occur in the landing phase. Where the latter is concerned, this is a serious issue which would undermine the integrity of the training environment for anyone who practices nailing their approaches for professional applications (as I am sure many real-world pilots do), although I do appreciate that the simulator (as I have found) is trouble-free out of the box and it is only when we saturate proceedings with our addons that problems may arise. If the nature of the beast (the freeze-up problem) is formally understood at some point then we might expect that developers could carry out the necessary modifications to eliminate such occurrences. In the meantime, I guess we shall have to suffer things as and when they arise and deal with them accordingly.

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6 hours ago, jimcarrel said:

I had my first "long pause" experience just a bit ago. It wasn't a mere 8 seconds, more like 15 or 20. I was convinced it was locked up. I do have a Lot of Orbx and SODE, but I've had all that for quite a while. The only thing I was doing out of the ordinary was running the GTN 750 and a GTN 650.   

Yes the GTN is probably your issue.

You must use the GTN config app and for any aircraft with the GTN installed, set CPU use, to "ALL".

ANY other settings for me, causes stutters. I have an i7 7700k with HT enabled and AM of 244.

So, the GTN looks for unused threads and all is good.

But you have to set it for EVERY addon you have the GTN installed in.... why Flight1 cannot have a global setting is anyones guess !

Edited by Gabe777

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5 hours ago, Gabe777 said:

Yes the GTN is probably your issue.

 

You guys are jumping to conclusions... :cool:

  • Upvote 1

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I may be Bert... but it is a possible cause.

Just something for him to look at.... not a scientific treatise.

Assumptions fill in the gaps where knowledge is lacking.... at least that was the basis of the scientific method when I did my PhD !

Everyone's system is different and changes daily.... we all have to make assumptions about stuff when we don't know what's wrong.

Anyhow, stuttering caused me no end of problems until I realised it was down to the GTN being set on Auto.... which I had 'assumed' was the best (and most intuitively correct) setting. Moreover, my setup was identical to the OP's.

And, unlike most people's 'cures'.... the CPU issue with the GTN is reproducable - 100 percent  of the time - at least on my system, which again, is almost identical to the OP's.

Crikey Im not asking for votes just suggesting a possible cause of his stuttering. He can try it.... if it doesn't work, move on.

Trying the plane without the GTN..... may be a good start !

 

......But thanks for your input........

Erm.... yeah. Useful. 

 

Edited by Gabe777

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6 hours ago, Gabe777 said:

......But thanks for your input........

Erm.... yeah. Useful. 

 

I am sure there are many ways to make P3D stutter and pause.. but the pauses that the OP was referencing and several of us have been discussing after V4.4. was released, are pauses that occur at specific locations, like KVNY R16R..

The fact that this particular pause happens on systems with no addon GPS installed, tells me that changing GTN settings are not the "cause"..

Just trying to keep the discussion "on topic".. Sorry :unsure:

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FWIW, this is the first version where I've had noticeable pauses at varying areas. Varying types of pauses also, landed at KRNO and just before  nosewheel touched, a 3 second pause. Other areas sometimes two or three short pauses in a row - not the quick stutter steps we get occasionally, these are definite pauses.

Like others, can't pinpoint a cause yet. But it DOES seem directly related to 4.4 because I did not have them in 4.3.

Vic

 

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Same here Vic. I've never had these hiccup-like stutters prior to 4.4. At first I thought they were related somehow to ASP4 weather injection, but the stutters occur infrequently and are almost random in timing.

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I'm wondering if some of the new (and configurable) graphics settings, like SCENERY_DRAW_DISTANCE, and MAX_TEXTURE_REQUEST_DISTANCE might be pushing loading of nearby scenery out to places where we wouldn't have seen it before...e.g. at KRNO, is the pause related to ORBX KTVL scenery suddenly getting loaded, or at KVNY, is loading of distant KSMO or KBUR scenery causing pauses?

In v4.3 I definitely still see pauses when first approaching airports, particularly big complex add-on stuff, almost certainly due to loading of a large number of 3D objects and textures (airport and AI traffic) all at once around 10 nm out.  Maybe in 4.4 you're seeing an unintended consequence of moving the ranges at which those objects load out further (?). 

Regards

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I have an i9-9900K CPU overclocked, 16GB ram, 1070TI and 2x1TB Samsung NVMe SSD drives, and performance is rarely an issue on this PC.

 

Except in P3D....

 

I use UTL, ActiveSky, PMDG, QW787 and the ORBX terrain mesh etc...

I was getting awful stutters in the sim even with traffic turned down and running 1080 instead of the native 4K.   I played with many many settings, followed a lot of advice here but in the end two things fixed it

1) in P3D 4.4 I cleared out all tweaks and changes

2) I turned Hyperthreading off.

 

Boom.    Now sliders are up, traffic at 100% etc, where this setup should be.  It looks great, and using UTL or PSXseeconTraffic injected from my utility PC, it flies (no pun intended).

 

So really if you have a good PC with lots of cores, turning off HT was night and day for me.  

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, vgbaron said:

FWIW, this is the first version where I've had noticeable pauses at varying areas. Varying types of pauses also, landed at KRNO and just before  nosewheel touched, a 3 second pause. Other areas sometimes two or three short pauses in a row - not the quick stutter steps we get occasionally, these are definite pauses.

Like others, can't pinpoint a cause yet. But it DOES seem directly related to 4.4 because I did not have them in 4.3.

Vic

 

 

18 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Same here Vic. I've never had these hiccup-like stutters prior to 4.4. At first I thought they were related somehow to ASP4 weather injection, but the stutters occur infrequently and are almost random in timing.

I've had these long pauses..up to 8 seconds long in both 4.3 and 4.4 Not sure when I first noticed them as may have been back in 4.2 also. They were in exactly the same location even with all settings to the left. Rob Ainscough posted about them in 2015 so not linked specifically to v4.xx

Chris

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12 hours ago, DocPadds said:

I have an i9-9900K CPU overclocked, 16GB ram, 1070TI and 2x1TB Samsung NVMe SSD drives, and performance is rarely an issue on this PC.

 

Except in P3D....

 

I use UTL, ActiveSky, PMDG, QW787 and the ORBX terrain mesh etc...

I was getting awful stutters in the sim even with traffic turned down and running 1080 instead of the native 4K.   I played with many many settings, followed a lot of advice here but in the end two things fixed it

1) in P3D 4.4 I cleared out all tweaks and changes

2) I turned Hyperthreading off.

 

Boom.    Now sliders are up, traffic at 100% etc, where this setup should be.  It looks great, and using UTL or PSXseeconTraffic injected from my utility PC, it flies (no pun intended).

 

So really if you have a good PC with lots of cores, turning off HT was night and day for me.  

 

 

 

HT on or off doesn't stop long pauses on my system. Using a 6700K at present. I've had these pauses for perhaps a year now and only way to minimise them is to reduce the amount of active scenery using an editor

Chris

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5 minutes ago, cj-ibbotson said:

HT on or off doesn't stop long pauses on my system. Using a 6700K at present. I've had these pauses for perhaps a year now and only way to minimise them is to reduce the amount of active scenery using an editor

Chris

Chris, yesterday I did as you suggested and I haven't noticed a pause since then.

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3 hours ago, cj-ibbotson said:

.....and only way to minimise them is to reduce the amount of active scenery using an editor

Yep, my experience also. Now that some of the more influential ‘big guns’ are experiencing the problem perhaps this issue will be taken a little more seriously and, in time, we can expect a solution....or not! However, it’s rather more likely that the finger of blame will be pointing in our direction and attributed to that understandable end user predilection for overloading our installations since this is allowed by the architecture.

Even more likely, I suspect, that this will be ignored given that Version 5, with it’s shiny new ‘game’ engine and graphics api, should sweep aside such shortcomings....or will it?

Regards,

Mike

Edit: When I first updated from v4.3 to v4.4 I failed to reboot the system before first run and was disappointed with brief, barely noticeable regular hitches occurring every 3secs. This was enough to destroy the immersion for me. With previous versions, performance degradations manifesting as intermittent micro stuttering or, worse, occasional prolonged studdering were usually resolved by performing a cold system reboot. This seems to have worked for v4.4 as well and so far, with limited testing at KVPS Elgin AFB, smooth performance, without pauses, is ruling the day. Fingers crossed!

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28 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

Yep, my experience also. Now that some of the more influential ‘big guns’ are experiencing the problem perhaps this issue will be taken a little more seriously and, in time, we can expect a solution....or not! However, it’s rather more likely that the finger of blame will be pointing in our direction and attributed to that understandable end user predilection for overloading our installations since this is allowed by the architecture.

Even more likely, I suspect, that this will be ignored given that Version 5, with it’s shiny new ‘game’ engine and graphics api, should sweep aside such shortcomings....or will it?

Regards,

Mike

I get long pauses even with just all of ORBX's regions and LC packages enabled. No other Orbx airport or other scenery add on installed and no other add one running. It doesn't take many items listed in the scenery library to trigger the pause. It can go from a slight repeatable stutter to 1s up to 8s full blown freezes of the SIM at the same spots. What I do is if I get a long pause is I slew back a mile or two then save the flight as a test then I can reload it with different amounts of scenery active and see how it affects the pause. Don't even need to fly forwards just slewing has the same effect.

Chris

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