Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
regis9

Carenado in X-Plane

Recommended Posts

This test wasn't a crosswind landing. I made sure of that. I tried to fill out a bug report, and log text maximum in their  site is 10 mb.  Mine shows 13 mb. Again seeing that and #$@%&* later i have  no choice but to wait .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/27/2018 at 9:10 AM, Adrian123 said:

Thanks for your reply. I also ran into a post on the org , maybe the same one ,where the default setup for XP11 changed the usb trim in some manner or another when using roll and pitch.By setting it to zero inside plane maker, it helps immensely. Something developers either Carenado or Xplane (Austin Powers) are going to have to fix. Also found deleting the assignment for yoke then reassigning will re-calibrate the yoke.

Hey Adrian: It was my computers fault regarding plane maker. Windows got messed up from the last upgrade. It is a bit more stable.As far as the PC 12, and the Caravan, both craft need a dependable patch. Better running, but no cigar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Paul Deluca said:

Hey Adrian: It was my computers fault regarding plane maker. Windows got messed up from the last upgrade. It is a bit more stable.As far as the PC 12, and the Caravan, both craft need a dependable patch. Better running, but no cigar.

I've done some tweaks on it myself that have helped alot. Yes, they were update to Xp11, 11 something but there has been many changes since the original 11.2 or whatever. They claim they are waiting on the final release. My experience is their never has been a "Final" release of Xplane since 1995. Not all bad but nightmare for developers. perhaps why they are hesitant.🙂

Edited by Adrian123

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/26/2018 at 8:56 AM, Paul Deluca said:

Cessna 208 caravan issues.  Carenado was quick to respond  fixing the tail heavy problem i had with it. Come to find out, half of the rocker switch stopped working on the [ch] yoke.My fault for not checking .Using the curve response was another big help.Huge difference now with proper trim .  Thank you Carenado!!!!!

Having the same tail heavy problem. What was the fix?

**Nevermind. Saw your answer.

Edited by Randall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let us know how you do Randall. I say the trim design is off a little. Last time a flew the Caravan i could only reverse for two seconds before veering off to the right.One day i fly it, OK!!.Another time i flew it , veers off. My Beech 1900, and 200 are great. Happy flying!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grabbed the Saab and to me out of the box the best carenado aircraft in xplane.

Very impressed and have flown nothing but it for the last few days.

They are getting their act together..

I have the LES Saab as well and with the Gtn in the Carenado working seamlessly its a joy to fly.


Darren Howie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info DE.  There is a classic bird i asked Carenado to look into is the Lake LA -4  Buccaneer amphibian.  Nobody has the craft  in the sims.Glad to see you enjoying the Saab. Happy Flying!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, DEHowie said:

Grabbed the Saab and to me out of the box the best carenado aircraft in xplane.

Very impressed and have flown nothing but it for the last few days.

They are getting their act together..

I have the LES Saab as well and with the Gtn in the Carenado working seamlessly its a joy to fly.

I’ve just received an email from x-aviation announcing the LES Saab on sale for this weekend only at $29.95.

I’ve now devolved an itch for a Saab 340 so was wondering as you have both , which one? Just having re read your initial comment, I think you’ve already answered my question 🙂

  • Like 1

787 captain.  

Previously 24 years on 747-400.Technical advisor on PMDG 747 legacy versions QOTS 1 , FS9 and Aerowinx PS1. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, jon b said:

I’ve just received an email from x-aviation announcing the LES Saab on sale for this weekend only at $29.95.

I’ve now devolved an itch for a Saab 340 so was wondering as you have both , which one? Just having re read your initial comment, I think you’ve already answered my question 🙂

I have both. I've owned the LES for years and picked up the Carenado as soon as it's released. A lot of people are saying "The LES is better. It's study level. Full stop", but it's much more complicated than that (and I have the feeling that a lot of the people making these comments don't even own the Carenado). So here's my rundown of it.

First of all, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, all of Carenado's planes in XP are developed from the ground up (minus the model and textures) by Thranda, who has been widely praised for their Quest Kodiak turboprop and JustFlight Piper ports. They are a competent systems dev while carenado's in-house team for FSX/P3D definitely isn't. 

Anyway, the Carenado, having been released only a few days ago, is fully XP11.31 compatible. The LES received its last update a few versions of XP ago and might not receive a large update until v2, which will most likely be a paid update. While it works, it isn't tuned for the latest version of XP. On a similar note, keep in mind that the Carenado has been out for all of 3 days, while the LES has been out for around 5 years IIRC. Naturally, planes need a bit of time to mature with updates after release. 

The Carenado will eventually be available on 3 or more stores (Carenado store, org store, and justflight), while the LES has only ever been on the X-Aviation store and most likely won't be sold elsewhere. 

The Carenado uses the default FMS and has a (simplified) Collins MFD, while the only non-VOR nav option in the XP is the GNS430. The GNS is almost exclusively used in GA flying. Also, for the longest time it's had a bug (at least I think it's a bug) where if you delete certain waypoints, the plane will just wander off in a random direction. While the default FMS isn't a model of any real world one, it's certainly closer to the Universal FMS found in many Saabs nowadays. However, the default FMS seems to have a VNAV function that gives the SAAB some sort of autothrottle, which is unrealistic as SAABs don't have autothrottle. I still can't tell if this is a bug, and the autothrottle will be disabled/removed and the who system revised, or if this is just a consequence of the less customized engine modeling and nav system. This is the biggest negative point with the Carenado for me, but it can be avoided by simply not using VNAV. 

The Carenado doesn't have a 'custom' nosewheel steering system, so you're not required to turn it on before taxi and after landing like in the LES. While this is less realistic, from a usability standpoint in the sim fiddling with this is a bit annoying. I prefer not having to worry about it, but that's just personal preference. 

The Carenado has better modeling and texturing, inside and out. Seeing as how most pilots, you know, have eyes that they use to see things around them, this is important for immersion. The external model of the LES looks like a cartoon, but this isn't as important I suppose. 

The Carenado has inferior interior lighting IMO- the CRT screens and flood lights in the LES look great. However, the LES' landing lights jut out in front of it as if the plane was in clouds or fog 100% of the time regardless of actual weather conditions. This is not realistic. 

The Carenado has a less realistic flight model IMO. The LES feels very sturdy and heavy yet maneuverable, while the Carenado feels twitchy. Also, when on autopilot at altitude I find that the Carenado makes much more sudden movements, and goes past 30 degrees of bank in a turn (unless 1/2 bank is turned on). If this behavior isn't realistic, hopefully it'll be fixed eventually.

The Carenado's engines stay very cool throughout all stages of flight, while in the LES you need to pull the throttles back, especially during climb, to avoid overheating. Both devs insist their behavior is realistic. This could be due to the fact that LES models an A model while Carenado models a B model with more advanced engines. However, the LES has more extensive custom engine modeling. It could be that their modeling is more accurate, or that it just doesn't play nicely with the latest versions of XP. I'm leaning towards the former. 

On the subject of engine modeling, bringing the props into reverse in the LES grinds the plane to a halt, and you need to wait over a minute for the engines to spool back up. I doubt this is realistic. 

The sounds of the two are a mixed bag. I like the systems sounds of the Carenado a lot more, while the engine sounds of the LES feel more authentic. The Carenado just doesn't have that characteristic rumble at low RPMs, and loud buzz at high RPM at cruise speed and altitude that I expect. But- the LES has an issue where, on approach, when you pass below a certain airspeed the engine sounds will instantly change from the normal high RPM 'in-flight' sound to the low rumble 'ground idle' sound without moving the throttles- this is only fixed by increasing speed or the position of the throttles 

Carenado has modeled the testing panel on their plane, while it isn't clickable in the LES. 

The LES has an AMAZING interactive checklist, a feature which is worth half the price of the plane honestly.

Then there's the update situation. Thranda is a small team with a LOT of planes to deal with, both existing planes not yet ported to XP11 (a process that I hear is like making a whole new plane), XP11 native planes needing support, and future planes to port from both Carenado and JustFlight in addition to their own projects. As such, it usually goes that a plane will receive many updates in the first few weeks and then slow down drastically. LES, on the other hand, has one 'main' plane (the Saab), a sort of joint venture with the TBM, and a handful of WIP planes. They can thus afford to give their planes more attention. This being said, with v2 potentially being less than a year away, it's possible that v1.5 of the LES SAAB may only get cursory updates in the meantime, with major updates coming in v2. 

The LES has many more liveries available, but I'm quickly trying to provide as many liveries as I can for the Carenado 😉  The LES comes with a paint kit and is much easier to paint than the Carenado, so there's a possibility that the LES will always have more liveries available for it. 

LES has a real Saab 340 pilot with over 5000 hours in the plane giving them feedback. I don't know how many Saab pilots Thranda/Carenado have consulted, if any, and in what capacity. They may have gotten pilot feedback, they may have not, I just don;t know. 

Finally, I like the manipulators of the LES more. Instead of the normal clicking, you need to drag switches, and buttons have a nice 'kachunk' to them. Also, LES modeled 'pots' or 'stops' in the different prop lever positions. This allows for more precise  placement of the prop levers, which is critical in this plane. 

So, to conclude, both have positives and negatives. The idea that this is a 'lite sim' vs 'study sim' issue, like Aerosoft vs FSLabs, just doesn't make a lot of sense to me as someone who has used both planes extensively. Both planes have very passionate and knowledgeable teams behind them. Unfortunately for the Carenado, the LES has the home-team advantage, having built up a (well deserved) reputation as the only study-level turboprop for XP, and a plane that Thranda built has the stain of the Carenado name, synonymous with 'pretty but lacking any depth', which is unfair given the standard of their recent XP11 native releases. 

Right now, the LES is on sale for $30 (retail is $50) while the Carenado is $40. Hopefully, this little write-up can help you understand how the two planes differ in as unbiased of a way as possible, so you can choose the best one to fit your needs.

Bias disclaimer- the issues with the LES mentioned above really bother me so I've rarely flown it in the past few months. I was really looking forward to the Carenado, and it ticks all the boxes for me so it'll be my go-to Saab, at least until the LES v2 comes out. And I'm a bit of a contrarian so I like to root for the perceived underdog, and have been irritated by the denigrating of this new entry by those who don't even own both and like to hop on the hype train. Competition is essential, and I think these two are worthy competitors. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for taking the time to post such a comprehensive write up, it’s been very helpful to me and I’m sure will be to many others as well.

i thought the Saab would be a good machine to own  in Loganair or Flybe liveries to fly  around Scotland using orbx TE North and also out of the Nimbus KMCO scenery in the silver airlines paint scheme.

As a real world airliner operator it’s all about the flight model for me, so from what you’ve said I think I’ll start with the LES initially while it’s on sale, but will most likely end up with both!

Thanks again for your valued input 


787 captain.  

Previously 24 years on 747-400.Technical advisor on PMDG 747 legacy versions QOTS 1 , FS9 and Aerowinx PS1. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, jon b said:

Thank you very much for taking the time to post such a comprehensive write up, it’s been very helpful to me and I’m sure will be to many others as well.

i thought the Saab would be a good machine to own  in Loganair or Flybe liveries to fly  around Scotland using orbx TE North and also out of the Nimbus KMCO scenery in the silver airlines paint scheme.

As a real world airliner operator it’s all about the flight model for me, so from what you’ve said I think I’ll start with the LES initially while it’s on sale, but will most likely end up with both!

Thanks again for your valued input 

Glad I could help!

 

By the way I just noticed an important and confusing typo in my post but I can't edit it anymore. What I said was:

 

"The Carenado uses the default FMS and has a (simplified) Collins MFD, while the only non-VOR nav option in the XP is the GNS430."

What I meant to say was:

"The Carenado uses the default FMS and has a (simplified) Collins MFD, while the only non-VOR nav option in the LES is the GNS530."

IMO the nav system Carenado went with is more user friendly, and somewhat more realistic given how many real Saabs have a Universal' FMS and Collins MFD, and I'm not sure of any airliner that uses a GNS530. This is one of the main reasons why I prefer the Carenado at the moment. 

EDIT: Apparently the differences are due to the different A and B models, and real Saabs have used the GNS530. I still prefer the Carenado/B model nav systems but this is important to understand. 

Edited by avgaskoolaid
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, avgaskoolaid said:

IMO the nav system Carenado went with is more user friendly, and somewhat more realistic given how many real Saabs have a Universal' FMS and Collins MFD, and I'm not sure of any airliner that uses a GNS530. This is one of the main reasons why I prefer the Carenado at the moment. 

We decided early on to model the Saab (as much as possible) as you would get it fresh from the factory  The "A" model was not produced with an FMS, and certainly not a GNS530 or GTN750.  Carenado has modeled a "B" model.  There are differences between the "A" and "B" as to what came out of the factory and what was installed as aftermarket equipment.  

We have pictures of "A" models with a GNS530 installed as aftermarket equipment, so our model does conform to real world possibilities.  

The airlines that use our product for training have not requested that we add an FMS into the "A" model.

When we do a "B" or "WT" version we will include the appropriate equipment

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, JGregory said:

We decided early on to model the Saab (as much as possible) as you would get it fresh from the factory  The "A" model was not produced with an FMS, and certainly not a GNS530 or GTN750.  Carenado has modeled a "B" model.  There are differences between the "A" and "B" as to what came out of the factory and what was installed as aftermarket equipment.  

We have pictures of "A" models with a GNS530 installed as aftermarket equipment, so our model does conform to real world possibilities.  

The airlines that use our product for training have not requested that we add an FMS into the "A" model.

When we do a "B" or "WT" version we will include the appropriate equipment

Thanks, I didn't know that. I've edited my post. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...