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GTN 750 in VR

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Hi,

I'm using the GTN 750 (version 2.4.14.0) with X-Plane 11.20 VR6 and I have a problem : I cannot click on the buttons of the touch screen in VR (with Oculus Rift) with the mouse cursor (or with the Oculus Touch controllers).

If I remove the VR headset and move it to see the GTN in the field of view (on the 2D monitor) and the use the 2D mouse cursor to click on one of the buttons, it works. Also, if I use the same instance of X-Plane without the VR gear, it works too.

I also own the GNS 530 and have no problem with this one in VR : as it is controlled through buttons, and not touch screen, it works.

I was able to use the GTN 750 before in VR, but I can't remember the changes I made between then and now.

Any ideas ?

Franck

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Hi, as far as I remember this is how XPlane is interfacing in VR mode ( see the Dev blogs). Until they come up with an official SDK suport for mouse in VR.

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Ok,

I was ready to swear it worked on a previous beta version, but I probably mixed up things.

Regards

Franck

 

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Here is more recent information:

https://developer.x-plane.com/code-sample/vr-window-sample/
"Note that as of X-Plane 11.20, control over windows in VR is quite limited—you can move a window to VR and move it out of VR, but that’s about it."

 

Having said this, the VR Window Sample linked above, and your comments, make me wonder:

  1. Do you actually see the 2D GTN window when in VR?
  2. Is this with the GTN window in-sim (floating) or detached (popped-out)?

I'm wondering what is the purpose of the new XPL SDK 301 'xplm_WindowVR' window position mode  (we don't have VR equipment to try out yet) should both already be yes?!

 

 

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Hi Jean Luc,

In fact I'm not using the GTN 750 as a window, I'm using it in the 3D cockpit of a plane where it was integrated (namely the JustFlight Piper Arrow III). In the first beta VR compatible versions of x-plane, you could not use the mouse and had to interact with the 3D cockpit with a VR controller. One of the first things I checked was that it was possible to interact this way with the touch interface of the RXP GTN 750 (I'm such a fan of the product) and it was. Then other beta versions came, adding at some point the possibility to interact with the 3d cockpit with a mouse (you now have a huge pointer moving in the 3D VR space with the mouse) and I'm not able to interact with it with the touch buttons of the GTN 750, only with the "hardware" buttons (home, knob...). I can't do it with the controller neither. I'm not sure now when the function disappeared : was it befween the 11.20 VR5 and 11.20 VR6 or was it before ?

The funny thing is that if I remove the VR headset, I see on the monitor the "mirror" image of what I see in the headset (just in 2D) and if I move the headset so I can see the GTN 750 on the monitor and then move the mouse cursor on the 2D image on the monitor to click on one of the touch buttons, it works.

As I said in the first message, the GNS 530 has not such problems (I'm using it integrated in a 3D cockpit too, in the vFlyteAir Piper twin comanche) because there is no touch screen. You interact only with it with hardware buttons and this works.

 

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Hi,

This explains a lot then. In effect, X-Plane doesn't provide any capability to associate a rendering surface area (that is where-to the GTN renders - within the bounds of the panel.png as a matter of fact), and a mouse click/area the plugin could be notified from X-Plane whenever there is a mouse event.

Because of this, offering 3D mouse support in X-Plane requires creating a 2D window covering the entire X-Plane window, which will draw nothing (invisible window) but just takes mouse inputs. In addition, our plugin must ensure this window is always on top so that another window won't catch the mouse instead.

Furthermore, the SDK doesn't allow a window to let a click pass through (per the SDK documentation), but there are subtle workaround to make this happen.

Well in short: X-Plane has never been designed for mouse input in 3D besides hard-coded mouse 'click spots' in the 3D model, and it is well possible the VR mode prevents full screen invisible windows to even work, because there is no 2D window in VR mode?

On March 16, 2018 at 2:38 PM, RXP said:

Having said this, the VR Window Sample linked above, and your comments, make me wonder:

  1. Do you actually see the 2D GTN window when in VR?
  2. Is this with the GTN window in-sim (floating) or detached (popped-out)?

I'm wondering what is the purpose of the new XPL SDK 301 'xplm_WindowVR' window position mode  (we don't have VR equipment to try out yet) should both already be yes?!

Now, I'd very much like you could try this and let me know the outcome, because with XP11.20, there is a new window position mode. XP11.10 added 'popout', XP11.20 added 'vr', and since we're actually working on the final bits of the next update, I'd like to know what the current popup/popout 2D window gives in VR, so that we consider whether we add the new 'VR' position mode as an option.

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Hi,

This time I used the laminar Cessna 172 and opened the GTN in a 2D window, both embedded and floating. In both cases, it doesn't show up in VR.

In both cases, the window is visible in the x-plane window on the monitor mirorring the VR headset view (see screenshots), but not in the VR headset itself.

Note : I'm in x-plane 11.20b1 version now as there was an update yesterday.2018-03-18.jpg2018-03-18%20(1).jpg

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Thank you for the additional info. This explains the purpose of the new flag in the SDK 301: to make a popout window render in the VR headset. We'll try to see how the best to make this if not auto-detected, at least manual, in the next update.

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Hi,

We've just released a new v2.4.15 update, with preliminary support for VR popup windows.

What it does is just follow the XP SDK guideline and code example: if the "sim/graphics/VR/enabled" dataref is set, our popup windows automatically become 'VR' popup window, otherwise, there continue working as usual.

It is supposed to display the popup windows in the VR headset instead of the main monitor(s) as in this example: https://developer.x-plane.com/code-sample/vr-window-sample/

Edited by RXP

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With this version the (2.4.15) GTN window is attached to my view in front of my eyes, following my head movements, can't move the window or lock at any location.

in the older version I click show window and then could move it to the xpad, can't do that anymore on this version. I wasn't able to see the window in VR, I move it from 2d to the xpad and then I could see it in VR.

Couldn't find more info in manual. Rolling back. If you need more testing, I'll be glad to help. (Oculus Rift)

----

Nope Couldn't rollback. :blink:

Edited by Celis

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@Celis Per the new XPlane SDK 3.01, Windows set to the 'VR' layer are supposed to appear all at the same place, but once loaded, you can move them to where you want. At least, this is what is documented.

Therefore, the latest version now detects whether you are in VR, and opens popup windows as 'VR' instead of 'popup'. Popout windows shouldn't be affected though.

Should you want to roll back, we always keep previous version around in case:

http://files.100megabyte.com/realityxp/rxpGTN-XPL(2.4.14).zip

Just delete the GTN plugin folder, eventually delete both C:\ProgramData\RealityXP\rxpGtnSim32.dll and rxpGtnSim64.dll, prior reinstalling.

I think we'll quickly issue an update to the update to disable VR for now, the SDK is not mature enough yet.

 

Edited by RXP
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@RXP Thanks, I'm getting 404 with the link.  

404 - File or directory not found.

The resource you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

Thanks

Alex

 

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link updated, sorry for this.

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I just wanted to make sure before we disable the VR support introduced in v2.4.15.

The XPlane blog says:
https://developer.x-plane.com/2018/03/vr-support-for-plugins-is-here/

When a window is added to VR space, it will be attached to the user’s head-mounted display (HMD)—as they move their head, the window will move with it. The user can then move the window into a fixed position (relative to the aircraft) by grabbing the window with their controller (or the mouse, in 3-D mouse cursor mode) and dragging it around. This mirrors the way the built-in ATC window works right now.

 

The first part, "as they move their head..." is consistent with your report. However, they mention you're supposed to be able to move the window with your controller. This part is no working isn't it?

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I tried to move it using 3 methods, 3d mouse, with laser pointer and 2d mouse.

But I didn't try the grab mode. I can do a test it in couple of hours and report back.

 

Edited by Celis

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20 minutes ago, Celis said:

But I didn't try the grab mode. I can do a test it in couple of hours and report back.

I'm looking forward your findings and hope this will work!

 

Besides, they say: "This mirrors the way the built-in ATC window works right now."

Can you please let me know how this works with the built-in ATC window to compare? Can you 'grab' it by the window title only or also anywhere in the window?

One possible reason you might not grab the GTN window is because it would be a 'decoration-less' window, whereas in all their examples they use a window with an X-Plane decoration around it. Unfortunately there is no way to change the look and feel of the window once created (as it appear from the SDK), but if this is the only reason this is not working, this shouldn't be a problem then for us to change the code to either 'decorated+VR' or 'undecorated+popup'.

Just let me know, there might not be much to change in our plugin in the end!

 

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Results.

The only way to move the vr windows is by the decoration bar (top bar), ATC can be moved no problem. not all around like the xpad. the xpad can be move if it's touched anywhere. 

Couldn't move the GTN around, no way to grab it.

hope that helps. if you want some more testing, I'll be glad to help.

Alex

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Great, we are making good progress. I'll see how the best we can make a title bar then in VR, and no title bar if no VR.

Thank you for your help with this one!

 

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I fly vr exclusively, first in flyinside, and now native. I was about to buy but disappointed to read the 750 can’t be interacted with in the 3D cockpit properly, especially in the carenado pc12 which support the 750 in the panel.

A 750 popout  that could be repositioned and fully interacted with in vr would be fantastic :-)

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2 hours ago, wsanders75 said:

A 750 popout  that could be repositioned and fully interacted with in vr would be fantastic :-)

Which is exactly what we are working on!

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That's great to hear. I bought it this morning fully expecting it to work in VR just like it works beautifully in a regular virtual cockpit, but no joy. Popping up the window just blocks my view and it's too big to actually fit in my field of vision anyway. 

It's a shame that I'm running into issues, as I really enjoy using another GTN 750 in FSX with Flyinside, which is what got me to buy this one for X-Plane. Here's hoping for a quick update.

Edited by RXP

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@bjornkeizers I hear you. Please understand XPlane VR is still a beta version for now and support for VR popup Windows in their SDK has just been added a few days ago only!

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Oh that's quite OK, the tech is relatively new - working with Oculus Rift in combination with a X-Plane beta, running through Steam, while installing RXP 750 on a JustFlight Turbo Package... there's bound to be issues. Heck, I'm surprised it's working as it is.

The FSX VR stuff has been around a while longer, but XP is rapidly catching up to most capabilities.

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I also fly only in X-Plane native VR+Pilotedge and own a 750license. If you need any test or beta testing, let me know. I'll be happy to help.

Thank you for your efforts working on this.

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