Hyperthreading for P3D. Yes or no?

[virtualstuff 754]

5 hours ago, David Roch said:

 

Yes very much, my wife and bank don't share my enthusiasm, really don't know why! :--))

 

😂

[newtie 533]

6 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

It would appear so..

You appear to run 218 processes.. that should indeed keep your CPU busy..

I run 58. 

How did you decide which to cut loose and with what app? I'm thinkin' Win7 has fewer services than Win10 out of the box.

Cheers,

Mark

[David Roch 1,980]

3 hours ago, Dirk98 said:

HT is faster by design. However discussions about HT On/Off without fine selection of a specific AM for your system is pointless, does not draw any sensible conclusion. It's your task to investigate and find how to make your CPU perform at full capability (which is HT On) with your application. It's not like "I tried HT On/Off, didn't like it and shut it down". You have to play with many different combinations of AM, P3D and your apps before drawing a conclusion. And even then... your criteria may be different, one is looking for higher FPS and other for a smoother texture/objects flow.

PS: the above makes sense when is at maximal P3D settings and @ lowest FPS the simulator and your eye can accept. See, how many variables we have here?

I am not drawing any conclusion.
I am just saying that after using an AM for years on my previous rigs, I don't need any today because multi-threading is much more efficient now with P3D v4.4 on a 8 cores. Process Lasso shows it quite well.
And honestly, I am very happy not to worry anymore about assigning specific cores to addons, the 9900K is powerful enough to handle the additional load.

Yes, everybody knows that HT is faster by design.
But it is also hotter as it drains more power. So most of us don't use it because they can't reach the same CPU freq.
I am lucky, my 5.1 GHz overclock is very stable with HT On, I believe I won a good CPU in the "lottery". So I use HT when editing/mounting 4K videos.
But with P3D, I disable it because it brings stutters, and no AM entry or PL task can cure them.

As you can see, all 16 cores are active, even with HT On.
So why should I continue playing with AM?
And why should I keep HT On when it is just making the system hotter (look at the temps) for zero improvement?


 

Edited December 17, 2018 by David Roch

[Dirk98 354]

32 minutes ago, David Roch said:

I am not drawing any conclusion.

As you can see, all 16 cores are active, even with HT On.
So why should I continue playing with AM?

Why would you ask this particular question? What does it prove or disprove? 

Also your graphs don't serve anything in my case and don't even touch upon what is more important for my approach - i.e. minimal average FPS deviation at highest P3D settings possible and at minimal FPS again, that my eyes and P3D can accept. This is my formula. Do you graphs attend to it? No.

Untill we agree on the criteria of your 'best P3D experience' there's no point of discussion of how many FPS you can get with this setting or another or is HT good or bad for P3D.

PS: mind you I'm not asserting you're not having your best P3D experience with your settings. It's more like they are different P3D paradigms we are living in, Lol.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Dirk98

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

3 hours ago, newtie said:

How did you decide which to cut loose and with what app? I'm thinkin' Win7 has fewer services than Win10 out of the box.

Cheers,

Mark

I have permanently turned off services that I do not use, manually..

Also got rid of Intuit and Google updates etc that serve no purpose for me.

Sometimes you have to locate and rename the exe file to achieve that..

[JoeFackel 760]

On 12/15/2018 at 9:49 AM, pmb said:

This has been known for a long time. It's been even discussed at the LM forum time ago, however, LM advises against this trick as it destroys the intended Prepar3d threading behavior. It's for a reason core-0 running maxed doing all management while the others serve texture loading essentially.

Do you have maybe an link to the thread at P3D forum? I also remember this statement from LM but can't find it ....

[pmb 5,137]

44 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

Do you have maybe an link to the thread at P3D forum? I also remember this statement from LM but can't find it ....

It's been quite some time ago (2yrs?), and I don't find the original source either. I think the remark was by Beau Hollis, but not sure about that.

Anyway, there is a similar statement by Zach Heylmun, cited by Slayer:

Strangely enough, the original links are no longer accessible either. Do they remove or shift threads???

Kind regards, Michael

 

[d.tsakiris 417]

Question: Straight out of the box, no AM or PL, and with HT on, does P3D utilize all CPUs, or only one on each physical core, i.e. every other CPU, like FSX did? (New CPU has no HT, hence me asking).

As far as I understand it, HT splits each core to give two logical CPUs, and only certain types of applications can take advantage of that. I doubt a flight sim is one of them, and least not all parts of it.

Edit: Never mind, I just read what Beau Holis wrote a while back...

Edited December 18, 2018 by d.tsakiris

[Mace 1,902]

On 12/16/2018 at 12:15 PM, David Roch said:

Hello André 🙂
I believe the screenies are showing the performance which are beyond my expectations.
But the GPU is helping a lot under bad weather or at heavy airports.
To be honest I am sooooo happy with this new rig!
 

You know what is really odd?  Your 9900K is showing broad usage of all cores, with your HT=OFF and no AM.

With my 8700K, HT=ON and no AM, I am seeing Core0 getting HAMMERED at 100% and the other cores with the normal terrain loading threads we see.  This what I expect to see with no AM set, but I wanted to point out how very different your 8-core 9900K is behaving vs. my 6-core 8700K.  I do not see the same cpu usage graphs you see *considering that we both run with no AM.* 

You would think, with you running with no AM, your Core0 would be getting hammered as well.  I assume you have observed your Core0 under all conditions, and still find your 9900K + P3D install balancing loads in that way?

Edited December 19, 2018 by Mace

[G-YMML1 582]

On 12/17/2018 at 9:15 AM, David Roch said:

I am not drawing any conclusion.
I am just saying that after using an AM for years on my previous rigs, I don't need any today because multi-threading is much more efficient now with P3D v4.4 on a 8 cores. Process Lasso shows it quite well.
And honestly, I am very happy not to worry anymore about assigning specific cores to addons, the 9900K is powerful enough to handle the additional load.

Yes, everybody knows that HT is faster by design.
But it is also hotter as it drains more power. So most of us don't use it because they can't reach the same CPU freq.
I am lucky, my 5.1 GHz overclock is very stable with HT On, I believe I won a good CPU in the "lottery". So I use HT when editing/mounting 4K videos.
But with P3D, I disable it because it brings stutters, and no AM entry or PL task can cure them.

As you can see, all 16 cores are active, even with HT On.
So why should I continue playing with AM?
And why should I keep HT On when it is just making the system hotter (look at the temps) for zero improvement?


 

 

Why your core voltage is SO high? I see it's almost 1.34-1.41

[AnkH 2,233]

4 hours ago, G-YMML1 said:

Why your core voltage is SO high? I see it's almost 1.34-1.41

Otherwise 5.1GHz would not be possible...

[David Roch 1,980]

9 hours ago, Mace said:

You know what is really odd?  Your 9900K is showing broad usage of all cores, with your HT=OFF and no AM.

With my 8700K, HT=ON and no AM, I am seeing Core0 getting HAMMERED at 100% and the other cores with the normal terrain loading threads we see.  This what I expect to see with no AM set, but I wanted to point out how very different your 8-core 9900K is behaving vs. my 6-core 8700K.  I do not see the same cpu usage graphs you see *considering that we both run with no AM.* 

You would think, with you running with no AM, your Core0 would be getting hammered as well.  I assume you have observed your Core0 under all conditions, and still find your 9900K + P3D install balancing loads in that way?

Yes, I confirm, same usage of all cores under all conditions. That's why I don't use anymore AM.
I agree that's very odd and against all we know about how P3D deals with multi-threaded tasks.
So I can only assume LM has seriously improved this matter with the v4.4 and that the 9900K is taking benefit of it.

(BTW, same thing happens independently of HT.
With HT On, I see all 16 cores jumping  with joy all together during a whole flight. I just don't use HT)

2 hours ago, AnkH said:

Otherwise 5.1GHz would not be possible...

Exact. (BIOS voltage setting on AUTO).
High voltage doesn't bother me as long as it never reaches 1.45 in bench tests and as long as the system stays bellow 80C in all conditions.

(You can note that with HT Off and same CPU overclocking, voltage and temps are much lower, that's why I don't use HT.)

Edited December 19, 2018 by David Roch

[HighTowers 1,434]

Or you can use a 9700k and there will be no debate since there is no choice for HT. 8 pure cores. End of story.

My observation for the first few weeks of using this cpu is a rather balanced across all cores. Very little stutters except some in heavy scenery and overcast. Probably my 1070 is not quite keeping up now. 

[JoeFackel 760]

6 minutes ago, HighTowers said:

Or you can use a 9700k and there will be no debate since there is no choice for HT. 8 pure cores. End of story.

I had this decision a week ago. I was pretty confident that when i pick now the 9700k instead of 9900k LM will invent in two years some threadmanagement magic which let P3D vX run as hell with HT on and then i'm screwed just because i want save 100 EUR 😎

So i had to get the 9900k, better save than sorry, end of story 😅

Edited December 19, 2018 by JoeFackel

[David Roch 1,980]

+ 1000 😊