Bert Pieke

Vertx DA62 has launched!

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David-

As a GA pilot I cannot remember flying a SID or STAR IRL.  Beginning on one yes, but very quickly vectored off to avoid congesting the arrival or departure with my plodding progress.  I hazard to offer that Sean will evolve this beauty into everything the real a/c is capable of (yes, with addition of the Navigraph dataset).  In the meanwhile, I would urge spending what amounts to a very reasonable price of admission on something that flies electrons better than any GA offering currently available.  I do not own the V-35, however I do own the A2A 182 and very much respect their abilities.  That said, I love this FDE.

As far as "a shame" about the pop-up, whilst I do understand in your particular application with 2 vertically stacked screens it would be desirable (and perhaps something Sean will consider as the G1000 suite is far too good to just use in one airframe), I wouldn't let that steal the pure joy of simulated flight from your experience.

The nice thing about this sort of conversation, it that in the end we EACH have VARIED opinions, and as long as we accept and respect that there are more than just ours that are valid- allest gut!

This is purely my OPINION (remember what "they say" about opinions)- no more.  See your chariot awaits.... 😉

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Best- C

Edited by cavaricooper
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Thank you, Carl,

I've just spent 30 mins looking at everything on their site and I have to say it looks amazing. Chaseplane can get around not having a pop-up.

The wing flex and the number of options look really good. The detail is incredible.  Q What flight level does it fly up to( man you can tell I fly 737/A319's) and what speed can it do?

Given the price of A2A, this is very good price wise also. 

O BTW what are FPS like with all that Glass?

Edited by Nyxx

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1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

What its like versus a2a bonanza?

It's difficult to make a comparison that would be completely fair between this and some A2A birds. Anyone who has a few A2A GA singles will probably be aware that they make a vastly better job of depicting a sideslip than any other GA add-on aeroplanes you can get for either FSX or P3D. But part of this is possible because they are singles, whereas the Vertx DA62 is a twin, so it also has to model asymmetric thrust and what would be fairly wicked stall/spin characteristics if one were to let that develop (all of this behaviour is customisable incidentally on the Vertx DA62, via a very nice utility with a good GUI).

So some of what makes all that customisable asymmetric twin behaviour possible in a flight model  might get in the way of how it can portray a sideslip, I dunno, but the fact is, it doesn't do a sideslip as well as an A2A GA single, i.e. it doesn't experience a significant increase in descent rate when you get it sideways, but in fairness, that is just about the only criticism of the DA62 I could come up with, in every other respect it is a good contender for being one of the best GA aeroplanes you can buy, and especially for the price..

12 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

BTW what are FPS like with all that Glass?

This is another great thing about it. As complex as all that glass is and as big as it is on screen, it gets really very good frame rates indeed. Anyone who has any concerns about that can happily forget them, it's really well optimised.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find something to spend thirty quid on this weekend. 🙂

Edited by Chock

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As a fan of classical round instruments and gauges the DA62 isn't something that would normally appeal to me to be honest. However as a long term fan of Realair products and as I'm always on the hunt for that illusive add on, the one that feels like its actually flying,I decided to give this ago. For $40 it's amazingly well priced.

I have to say I'm now hooked, it flies superbly. I've spent the morning out of Meigs doing circuits and out over the water doing stalls and single engine work, simply stunning. I now need to sit down and work out how the G1000 works to start and get the most out of this plane.

Highly recommended, flight and visual models are both first class with  high FPS. I recently said elsewhere that the JRollon SF260 was the best GA aircraft available in my opinion on any platform , I'll have to update that now to best SINGLE engine GA aircraft !

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59 minutes ago, rudi0310 said:

Navigraph? In ORBX PNW I do not want to give up 30 % of all airports usable by this aircraft, missing in Navigraph. Not for this GA aircraft and not for any other.

A better choice than Navigraph alone for this aircraft to update approaches (SID/STAR are not used in most cases for this aircraft and therefore not implemented yet):

Everybody has the right to post at AVSIM what he thinks (this also applies to me) and also to post what he did not think about. But I see the danger that newcomers believe too much of what gets posted here. Navigraph? Watch, do own research and think about.

 

Well, I understand your opinion Rudi, but not everyone whats to fly out of small airports in a twin. I don't use Orbx regions even if I do own a few, am not using them.

I would if I buy it, fly out of med/large airports. So yes i would like Navigraph. Since this aircraft has oxygen and can fly high why should it not be able to have the lastest Navigraph for people who might not want to fly into orbx tiny airports? 

Just because it suits your needs as it is, does not mean that suits everyone's nor does it mean people should not be aware that at the moment it does not support Navigraph.

Just because it has no importance to you does not mean it of no importance to people wanting to use it in a more commuting way to Med/large airports.

Edited by Nyxx
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24 minutes ago, Chock said:

It's difficult to make a comparison that would be completely fair between this and some A2A birds. Anyone who has a few A2A GA singles will probably be aware that they make a vastly better job of depicting a sideslip than any other GA add-on aeroplanes you can get for either FSX or P3D. But part of this is possible because they are singles, whereas the Vertx DA62 is a twin, so it also has to model asymmetric thrust and what would be fairly wicked stall/spin characteristics if one were to let that develop (all of this behaviour is customisable incidentally on the Vertx DA62, via a very nice utility with a good GUI).

So some of what makes all that customisable asymmetric twin behaviour possible in a flight model  might get in the way of how it can portray a sideslip, I dunno, but the fact is, it doesn't do a sideslip as well as an A2A GA single, i.e. it doesn't experience a significant increase in descent rate when you get it sideways, but in fairness, that is just about the only criticism of the DA62 I could come up with, in every other respect it is a good contender for being one of the best GA aeroplanes you can buy, and especially for the price..

This is another great thing about it. As complex as all that glass is and as big as it is on screen, it gets really very good frame rates indeed. Anyone who has any concerns about that can happily forget them, it's really well optimised.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find something to spend thirty quid on this weekend. 🙂

Thanks, Alan,

It's not hard to spend £30 on Peroni in a weekend 🙂 put yes its very good value for money that's for sure.

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37 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Thank you, Carl,

I've just spent 30 mins looking at everything on their site and I have to say it looks amazing. Chaseplane can get around not having a pop-up.

The wing flex and the number of options look really good. The detail is incredible.  Q What flight level does it fly up to( man you can tell I fly 737/A319's) and what speed can it do?

Given the price of A2A, this is very good price wise also. 

O BTW what are FPS like with all that Glass?

David,

As you know I was one of the beta testers since alpha. All I can say is that Sean has done an outstanding job on this beautiful bird. He worked tirelessly to improve the fps and bring a modern GA twin into our sims. He definitely deserves our support!

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18 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Just because it suits your needs as it is, does not mean that suits everyone's nor does it mean people should not be aware that at the moment it does not support Navigraph.

I don't think it is your intention but all this discussion about Navigraph ect. comes across as the only thing that is important here. Yes lots of guys like to sit at their computer and watch a five or 6 hour automatic flight. It seems to me that we are missing the point that this first a light GA aircraft and many many folks like to kick the tires and light the fires for a one or two hour flight to a near by airport. My understanding is that Sean is well aware of the Navigraph limitations and I suspect there will be a solution sooner rather than later. This subject has been beat to death. We all get it. SIDs and STARS are your passion. 

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20 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Well, I understand your opinion Rudi, but not everyone whats to fly out of small airports in a twin. I don't use Orbx regions even if I do own a few, am not using them.

I would if I buy it, fly out of med/large airports. So yes i would like Navigraph. Since this aircraft has oxygen and can fly high why should it not be able to have the lastest Navigraph for people who might not want to fly into orbx tiny airports? 

Just because it suits your needs as it is, does not mean that suits everyone's nor does it mean people should not be aware that at the moment it does not support Navigraph.

Just because it has no importance to you does not mean it of no importance to people wanting to use it in a more commuting way to Med/large airports.

I can totally understand your opinion on the navigraph charts.  Now that said I would say probably 90% of the time in the real world a light twin like this would not be flying into the large airports, for example someone owning this plane would not fly into JFK, they would fly toteterboro.  They wouldn't fly into LAX, they would go to Van Nuys.  I think that is what Sean the developer was building this plane for, not so much flying into the JFKs and LAX.  

Currently there are work arounds to the sids/stars that Rudi has explained in his videos, and in other threads it has been said Navigraph is coming, but there are some issues with it.  As Rudi hinted at some of the smaller airports aren't in navigraph charts, so they wouldn't be in the G1000 database.  Yes that will help some users wanting to do the big airports, but it will hurt other users wanting to fly into the smaller airports.  

Now all of that said about navigation, this plane is something special, the flight dynamics are amazing.  IMO it has the most realistic near stall feel of any plane I've flown in flight sim.  The sounds, the buffeting, it is very well done.

Now that said I do have some things I would like to see in the future, my number 1 item, which may already work with a full version of FSUIPC, is I would like to have physical buttons for the g1000.  Yes I know the realsimgear is out there, but I don't want to spend $1500 on new hardware.  I want to spend $150 on basically a fancy switch box that I can turn all the knobs on the g1000s on.  It doesn't exist so I know I will have to make my own which I'm fine with but currently I cant figure out a way to assign buttons in the g1000 to keys, so if I can't currently do that, I can't assign it to a button box I'm going to build.  That is a very niche use case so I know it may never come, but I would like to see it.

I am still going to enjoy flying this plane a lot.  I fly on FSEconomy and this is going to be my new plane of choice, I also am planning on doing an around the world flight in FSeconomy, in this plane.  I think that will be a blast.

Just to sum up..please don't let the lack of navigraph charts stop you from experiencing this amazing add on.  I have some of the a2a planes, PMDG planes, areosoft, carenado.   It is one of the best, if not the best, out there and I can't wait to see what else Sean at Vertx is going to do with this plane, and what his next ones are.  

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Hmm, I think I will have to have a word with 'she who must be obeyed' and get her add this to my Christmas list! BTW, everyone to their own, and I may be wrong, but in the RW, surely GA aircraft don't fly SIDS and STARS do they?

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2 minutes ago, Rockliffe said:

Hmm, I think I will have to have a word with 'she who must be obeyed' and get her add this to my Christmas list! BTW, everyone to their own, and I may be wrong, but in the RW, surely GA aircraft don't fly SIDS and STARS do they?

Ordinarily this is kind of true, but with regard to nav systems, SID and STAR capabilities etc on this aeroplane in particular, it's worth bearing in mind that the DA62, and the smaller DA42, are quite extensively used as trainers for airline pilots. If I remember correctly, EasyJet is a big user of them for this purpose out in New Zealand. Of course one of the reasons for this is the diesel engines, which means there is no faffing about with mixture controls and therefore they are more akin to a jet engine in terms of only really being controlled by thrust levers alone with little need to worry about mixture or prop settings, but another of the reasons for the 42 and 62 as airliner trainers is their big pair of glass PFDs which are a fair approximation of what you find in the driving seat of an A320, so for anyone who is interested in this aspect of the DA42 and DA62's navigation systems functionality in the real world, this is possibly a legitimate concern.

Edited by Chock
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4 minutes ago, Chock said:

Ordinarily this is kind of true, but with regard to nav systems, SID and STAR capabilities etc on this aeroplane in particular, it's worth bearing in mind that the DA62, and the smaller DA42, are quite extensively used as trainers for airline pilots. If I remember correctly, EasyJet is a big user of them for this purpose out in New Zealand. Of course one of the reasons for this is the diesel engines, which means there is no faffing about with mixture controls and therefore they are more akin to a jet engine in terms of only really being controlled by thrust levers alone with little need to worry about mixture or prop settings, but another of the reasons for the 42 and 62 as airliner trainers is their big pair of glass PFDs which are a fair approximation of what you find in the driving seat of an A320, so for anyone who is interested in this aspect of the DA42 and DA62's navigation systems functionality in the real world, this is possibly a legitimate concern.

You never cease top amaze me with your knowledge Alan! Thanks for the info.

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Can someone please explain why this plane is so special, it looks pretty but so do all of the other carenado aircraft.

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5 minutes ago, Mitch24 said:

Can someone please explain why this plane is so special, it looks pretty but so do all of the other carenado aircraft.

In No particular order. Quite simply : Visuals, Flight Dynamics and System Fidelity. All of which are vastly superior on this Diamond than the Carenado by all accounts.

Looks like a really nice plane. I'm just a little surprised myself how much attention it's getting. I didn't know there were that many folks into GA.

Congrats to Vertex, looks like a real work of art. I will likely pick it up soon.

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1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

O BTW what are FPS like with all that Glass?

I have a kinda similar system as you, and use similar a/c add-ons (NGX & -8).

This new DA-62 runs very smooth on my system with very high settings. I lock at 20 FPS (because I prefer high settings) and my FPS stay above 19.7 everywhere I have flown in all kinds wx., even heavy TS's around Tampa Florida last night.

Performance wise the Vertx DA-62 is very well optimized...Crisco Butter. 

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38 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

I don't think it is your intention but all this discussion about Navigraph ect. comes across as the only thing that is important here. Yes lots of guys like to sit at their computer and watch a five or 6 hour automatic flight. It seems to me that we are missing the point that this first a light GA aircraft and many many folks like to kick the tires and light the fires for a one or two hour flight to a near by airport. My understanding is that Sean is well aware of the Navigraph limitations and I suspect there will be a solution sooner rather than later. This subject has been beat to death. We all get it. SIDs and STARS are your passion. 

Your right it was not my intention but Rudi fired off about it. 

SIDs and STARs are not my passion there just used in 100% of the airports I fly to and from.

Also, this point out the SID STAR thing has been beaten to death! really well until today, I did not even look at this aircraft. So unless people have followed it like you it just might be news to them as it was to me.

35 minutes ago, fluffybunny88 said:

I can totally understand your opinion on the navigraph charts.  Now that said I would say probably 90% of the time in the real world a light twin like this would not be flying into the large airports, for example someone owning this plane would not fly into JFK, they would fly toteterboro.  They wouldn't fly into LAX, they would go to Van Nuys.  I think that is what Sean the developer was building this plane for, not so much flying into the JFKs and LAX.  Currently there are work arounds to the sids/stars that Rudi has explained in his videos, and in other threads it has been said Navigraph is coming, but there are some issues with it.  As Rudi hinted at some of the smaller airports aren't in navigraph charts, so they wouldn't be in the G1000 database.  Yes that will help some users wanting to do the big airports, but it will hurt other users wanting to fly into the smaller airports.  

10

My local airport EGNX is not only the biggest cargo hub now in the UK but GA's come and go all the time, I even had GA lessons there. you're right you might not want or do fly out of huge airports but a flight into and out of airports like EGNX or islands like LEIB is not pushing the bounds of a twin GA.

Sorry, you both find the topic that BTW I did not bring up of Navigrah so offending. I just gave an opinion on why some might like it.

Edited by Nyxx

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12 minutes ago, pracines said:

I have a kinda similar system as you, and use similar a/c add-ons (NGX & -8).

This new DA-62 runs very smooth on my system with very high settings. I lock at 20 FPS (because I prefer high settings) and my FPS stay above 19.7 everywhere I have flown in all kinds wx., even heavy TS's around Tampa Florida last night.

Performance wise the Vertx DA-62 is very well optimized...Crisco Butter. 

Thanks, Paul am petty sure am going to buy it over the weekend and see what all the great feedback its got is all about.

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12 minutes ago, Mitch24 said:

Can someone please explain why this plane is so special, it looks pretty but so do all of the other carenado aircraft.

The value (price for what you get) with the Vertx DA-62 is unmatched in the GA twin class as far as I'm concerned. Like I said in another thread, the manual alone is worth $30 in the quality and completeness of content. Add the Configuration App that is filled with options to suit all kinds of realism needs and personal preference desires.

If one reads the real world flight manual or views YT vids of real DA-62 flights, this Vertx version behaves virtually the same. Simulators are usually more difficult to fly than the real thing, but this Vertx DA-62 reduces the gap without compromising the physics. 

The G1000 needs more features (and options made available) to be considered the same as RW, but for the price, we get a very capable G1000.  

I'm already looking forward to the next Vertx offering!😁

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12 hours ago, pcartier1960 said:

I have an issue, not sure why but I installed a new fresh version of P3D4 and when I load the aircraft it starts as if the engine is ready to start and then it just gets silent, no sounds from the cockpit. also selecting the master switch does not start the electrical system. If I do a Ctrl-e then press the master switch the PDF will initialize. Not sure what's going on but I will investigate more. 

--update: it appears my download was corrupt, re-downloaded and everything works fine!

12 hours ago, pcartier1960 said:

-PaulC

 

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10 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Sorry, you both find the topic that BTW I did not bring up of Navigrah so offending. I just gave an opinion on why some might like it.

Not offending at all. I can see why you said that if you have not been following this release for the past 2 or 3 weeks like many of us. Long story short...there have been many others complaining about the navigraph thing and it has already been said that Sean is going to have a look at it for a solution after release. 

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So far I just have setup my Chaseplane views and controls. I flew a short pattern at TNCM.

I have to say she is such a beauty, and I love the options we have with it. Sure, dynamic wear and tear would be nice, but it isnt mandatory, she has good Systems already.

As I am from Austria/Vienna, near the Diamond headquarter I HAD to trie her instantly, it was no mistake!

 

Edited by Rhinozherous

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2 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

Not offending at all. I can see why you said that if you have not been following this release for the past 2 or 3 weeks like many of us. Long story short...there have been many others complaining about the navigraph thing and it has already been said that Sean is going to have a look at it for a solution after release. 

That's Great Sam, thank you.

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21 minutes ago, Mitch24 said:

Can someone please explain why this plane is so special, it looks pretty but so do all of the other carenado aircraft.

I have both, each one has it's pros and cons. Each one needs more work to make it amazing. 

But to answer your question, what makes this one so special is it's flight physics.  I don't have any real world time in a DA62, but I do have about 20hrs in a da20, 40hrs or so in a Seneca III, and about 70hrs in a Seminole.  This one reminds and gives me the feed back I would expect in a light ga twin.   The Carenado flies more like a default FSX single. In the Vertx stalls and stall recoverys are modelled better, flight control response at slow speeds is more correct, stability in 45 degree turns is again more correct. 

That being said, I guess it boils down to support.  RealAir, of which Vertx is "born", has a reputation for making things right. Carenado, not so much in terms of after-sale support.  Hopefully the community will throw it's support behind Vertx so they can to support us in exchange.  

 

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I seem to be missing something on the Navigraph vs fsAerodata debate.  As i understand it, fsAerodata's updates to the P3D database use Navigraph data as its source, and in fact you have to have a paid Navigraph subscription to use the paid fsAerodata updates.  From fsAerodata's website (emphasis mine):

"Our source data is supplied by Navigraph, and is compiled and converted every AIRAC cycle. Each 28 days, a new dataset is ready in fsAeroData for download and installation into your flight simulator. fsAerodata concerns only the default FSX/Prepar3D database; all flight simulator addons and tools are updated via Navigraph’s FMS Data Manager directly.

The fsAerodata tool can be purchased as a 3-month license or 1 year license, this latter one valid 365 days from the date it was purchased. Additionally, you’ll need an active subscription to Navigraph, which is the provider of the source data to fsAerodata. At the download of each cycle, you’ll be requested to validate your Navigraph subscription."

So if an airport is missing in the Navigraph database, how does it then appear in the fsAerodata database which uses Navigraph data as its source?  As I read this, you are using Navigraph data which has been taken and baked into the P3D scenery bgls...but it's still Navigraph data.  Why then, would fsAerodata's solution, which is used in the DA-62, be any better or worse??

Regards

 

 

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I trained on the DA40tdi (yes diesel engine by Thielert) and while my simming days in GA aircraft are far and few between I will probably pick it up and get acquainted with the elegant austrian. 

SID / STAR is not concerning me. Seems like lot of you think it's an airliner.

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