On 12/20/2018 at 3:06 PM, Rob Ainscough said:

I fly P3D more than XP11 and honestly, I really only want ONE that does it all ... P3D is getting closer to that than XP11 right now.  Don't get me wrong, competition is good ... but a market this small, I'm not sure it is ... like I said, I'm paying twice for the same product for each platform ... that's not a desirable situation, but neither is "the ONE" ... yet.

Like you I have both, and I got XP11 on that early sale/promo. Though I could throw cash at XP, I cannot get myself to do it. I understand the competition concept well enough, but we will never have "the ONE" if we keep blessing both. I think getting to "the ONE" will never happen at this rate.

If only (me dreaming🤓) LM would/could buy out the rest (XP, AF, FlyInside, DCS, ect.) and do some kind of merging of features/talents (they all have their strengths), that would/could be a start, done slowly and wisely it could work. Not easy, not simple, but the kicker is the ESP license and what happens to it? Without getting too deep or legal, MS ESP licensing is likely the greatest hinderance, but not impossible, agreements and amendments can be made....just me thinking aloud about possibilities for a distant future.

The flight sim community concentrating on ONE sim would be best. We would attain realism much faster. To satisfy competition needs, we would compete with other software genres, hobbies, even business software, rather than compete with ourselves and be so divided year after year - 

"Our sim graphics are better than their games", "Intel develops this 8GHz chip for our flight sim, not all them games or business software"

- just moving on to things that matter, rather than debate and even argue about personal preferences constantly amongst ourselves like we do now.

We would get noticed by the whole world fast because we have some serious talent...combined and collaborating, nothing would compare.

One can only hope.

21 hours ago, vgbaron said:

 

We have a short leash on XP/LM discussions because they always degenerate into a flame war.and your little nudge here could be considered borderline trolling. 

Since you feel there MUST be one - the weather SDK in XP is essentially non existent. The P3D SDK interface is far superior. I cannot say more than that but it is a real issue.

So, you now have one item - let's move along to a different discussion or this thread will close quickly.

Happy Holidays,

Vic

I think if someone declares that you can do a lot more things on product A compared to product B, it is legit to ask to provide proof or examples of it. No trolling at all.

With regard to weather, the limitation is not in the SDK itself, but in the XP weather model itself having less features. Nobody ever denied weather is one thing P3D does better. Still far from the stated "can do many more things", though.

I concur with tonywob post above. I don't see this superiority of P3D SDK as stated here, but rather different limitations in each of the two SDKs. I am glad that my request for explanations of a statement without proof, led to a discussion that hopefully made things clearer. Will move along.

Edited December 24, 20187 yr by Murmur

Yet another argument about which is better.  Take it to the .org.  Please.

I knew bringing this topic to hanger chat would likely increase the arguments, but let try to keep this open....lets beat the odds, we can do it.👍

XP users, and P3D users, if they know the sims, they know the limitations. If one can compare the two with another person, then it can be compared by oneself, because one has to have all the facts to be able to do either. So if you have to "ask" for proof then there is no way you can verify it. If one does not have both then it is not prudent to continue the "vs." discussion here.

Lets both admit each have their strengths and weaknesses, and hope that someday the 2 or even all sims become 1 because it is for the best...this "eternal" debate testifies as to why its for the best.  

 

1 hour ago, pracines said:

Lets both admit each have their strengths and weaknesses, and hope that someday the 2 or even all sims become 1 because it is for the best...this "eternal" debate testifies as to why its for the best.  

 

I don`t want only one, I want both. I cannot fly only in P3D with its antiquated graphics engine that reminds me of FS2002 in some regions and I cannot use only XP11 with its well-known deficiencies and sometimes sub-par addons. 

No matter how they progress, they will always be different. As someone who is always looking for a change, I the last thing I want is a dominant flight-sim platform.

I think 60% market-share for XP and 40% for P3D is where we will end up being, which is fine, considering that the average P3D user spends more on add-ons and that should be enough to have a healthy third-party ecosystem.

There is no reason why both platforms cannot thrive. That is already happening in my opinion.

6 hours ago, GCBraun said:

I don`t want only one, I want both. I cannot fly only in P3D with its antiquated graphics engine that reminds me of FS2002 in some regions and I cannot use only XP11 with its well-known deficiencies and sometimes sub-par addons.  

No matter how they progress, they will always be different. As someone who is always looking for a change, I the last thing I want is a dominant flight-sim platform.

I think 60% market-share for XP and 40% for P3D is where we will end up being, which is fine, considering that the average P3D user spends more on add-ons and that should be enough to have a healthy third-party ecosystem.

There is no reason why both platforms cannot thrive. That is already happening in my opinion.

You see, if I had the idea that P3D reminded me of FS2002 even in the slightest, I would never even buy it, I already have FS2002.

But what if we could have the best of both -  the good things from both (even all) platforms. Literally everybody would be pleased. Easier for 3rd parties to concentrate on a central platform.

This is not a simple matter, but the competition amongst both platforms is not thriving as much as when MSFS was the dominant flight sim with no competition - FS1-FS2002 days - we were thriving leaps and bounds then. Now the pace is very slow by comparison all because of accepted competition within the family.

To have to pick between slopped runways or realistic weather is not a choice, it is a crime against ourselves. MS was never so stupid that they could not eventually develop slopped runways. And LR is not so stupid they could not develop at least a reasonable ATC - because of competition they have to pick and choose what gets developed - and simmers lose. Given another 20 years and we still will not have decent ATC for XP or slopped runways in P3D because PBR is more important, then there is the Vulkan race, and VR refinements, competition that gets us screenshots and pretty marketing vids, nothing of true value to an aviator.

I want to be able to call an FSS and listen over a VOR. I want a Unicom to be unmanned when its supposed to be and manned when its supposed to be. I want PCL. I want real world NOTAM's to be reflected in sim. I want cirrus to reach way above 90,000 feet and cloud formations to feel real, even be scary when they should be. I want all airports, even private farm strips to have some degree of life. I want visible ice accumulation on the ground, and on aircraft, and I want that to be potentially "deadly". I can list so much more that we should have had in MSFS version 16 by now, but competition amongst and truly against ourselves got in the way.

We are not thriving, we are in daily a state of flux....'which sim do I fly? because none of them are complete like they could/should be.' 

 

1 hour ago, pracines said:

... and VR refinements, competition that gets us screenshots and pretty marketing vids, nothing of true value to an aviator.“

 

VR is the biggest advancements in flight simulation that I can remember. I am there, in the flight-deck, be it a C172 or a 777. It is something that I have always dreamt of coming true. And you call it “nothing of true value”.

I think we just disagree to much to keep this discussion going.  

43 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

I think we just disagree to much to keep this discussion going.

I agree - this one has run it's course.