Coverage outside USA

[fppilot 4,355]

15 minutes ago, Ted Striker said:

t sounds like you can downgrade the GNS software to an earlier version and then install the earlier small airport database into the GNS. Is this correct?

Not exactly. This is difficult to explain because we each have a way of saying things, and likewise we each have our way of reading or listening.

The Garmin GNS trainer used by the RXP GNS 430v2 and 530v2 is able to use that last database from the end of 2015 that was common to both the GNS and the GTN.  It was numbered 1513, was worldwide, and included the smaller runways.  What the GNS trainer can no longer do is access the newer updates for the GTN database. It is not a common database any longer. Garmin changed the GTN format and it is the GNS that cannot read that newer format.  Garmin appears to now have split GNS database updates into regions and eliminated the shorter airstrips.

I am using the Garmin 1513 database version with the GNS but now there appears no way to update the GNS database except with regional  databases, and I believe those lack the smaller strips you are seeking.  My only experience was with a mid 2017 GNS update for USA only.  I believe it may have lacked Canadian airports, and I know it lacked Caribbean airports. 

So for the GNS I went back to 1513 and have stayed there.  You can do that as well and you should have all of the smaller strip approaches published prior to the end of 2015.

What I believe has happened real world is that with the emergence of RNAV/GPS/LPV/LNAV technology, the number of published instrument approaches has exploded. Almost every small airport in the US now has RNAV or GPS approaches.  I believe the size of the worldwide.bin database more than doubled in size from say 2012 to 2016.  I am not sure how much memory the older GNS gauges can use in real life.  I can only guess that may be the reason for splitting and dumming down the databases - to reduce the size.  That is only a guess.

[DavidP 1,408]

38 minutes ago, fppilot said:

That is only a guess.

From reading on the subject that I have done, I believe you would be quite correct.

[Ted Striker 338]

38 minutes ago, fppilot said:

You can do that as well and you should have all of the smaller strip approaches published prior to the end of 2015.

Thanks for the thorough explanation Frank. This is what I was trying to figure out. If I understand you correctly I can purchase a new RXP GNS 430 and 530 and I will be able to install database 1513 and have the data for the smaller airports. I find it hard to believe that Garmin would have just removed this small airport data for real world pilots so I assume that this just applies to their trainers.

Ted

[ckyliu 1,749]

For the GTN750 I downloaded the latest GTN PC Trainer 6.50.1 from Garmin as Bert suggested (and it's massive, 4 GB when installed, took an age to download at 10 Mbps) which includes navigation database 1803 29-Mar-18 (I have no idea what trainer version RXP is compatible with) and safetaxi 18S1.

I also ran my RXP GNS530v2 in P3D, which has aviation database 22-Oct-2009.

• Both seem to contain small UK licensed aerodromes (EGNF with a 530m/1800ft grass strip) and SIDs/STARs (I used EGNX for this).
• Both contain decent coverage of major national ground routes (A roads, motorways, rivers and railways), in addition to naming settlements and inland bodies of water.
• Neither had unlicensed fields (EGCA? Coal Aston with a 600m/1969ft grass strip).
• Taxyways (both EGNF and EGNX), obstacles and VRP only appeared on the GTN.

Also, the GTN is a helluva lot nicer than the GNS! Things are a lot clearer on it with a much better use of colour. As expected being a touchscreen it's much quicker to navigate and input data. Think I need to buy the GTN! Hope this information helps others.

Edited December 19, 2018 by ckyliu

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

Happy you have it figured out!

If you need a newer WW GNS database (1513), contact me via PM with your email address..

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

2 hours ago, Ted Striker said:

Thanks for the thorough explanation Frank. This is what I was trying to figure out. If I understand you correctly I can purchase a new RXP GNS 430 and 530 and I will be able to install database 1513 and have the data for the smaller airports. I find it hard to believe that Garmin would have just removed this small airport data for real world pilots so I assume that this just applies to their trainers.

Ted

Nope, this is true for real world pilots as well.  Most of whom have no need for a WW database..

For that, the regional GNS databases DO include the smaller runways.

Just not the GNS WW database (due to size limitations)

Edited December 19, 2018 by Bert Pieke

[fppilot 4,355]

2 hours ago, Ted Striker said:

Thanks for the thorough explanation Frank. This is what I was trying to figure out. If I understand you correctly I can purchase a new RXP GNS 430 and 530 and I will be able to install database 1513 and have the data for the smaller airports. I find it hard to believe that Garmin would have just removed this small airport data for real world pilots so I assume that this just applies to their trainers.

Ted

Ted, now you appear to be putting words in my mouth based on some agenda. If you want to fly into small airports in Orbx provided scenery i recommend you listen to those who do so more often than I do.  I believe Bert with his involvement with the Avsim Round the World Race Forum group flies into such Orbx airports more often than I during their weekly activities. So I defer to him. You should check it out if that is where you fly.

Whatever differences you may have with Garmin's business decisions is not a topic for my discussions.  The RXP team is in my opinion doing a wonderful job providing us with the best that is available with the interfaces available from Garmin and the independent innovation they are coming up with.

[DavidP 1,408]

Quote

I find it hard to believe that Garmin would have just removed this small airport data for real world pilots

While I have no statistics to verify it, I would suggest that the vast majority of real world users of these Garmin units would only require regional databases. Anyone flying privately and internationally would no doubt have the means to be using aircraft well beyond most of our budgets, and would therefore have the means for more expensive database solutions.

Remember, this is a real world application - real owners use this to practice on. We are lucky that it has been adapted for the use of simmers at home.

Edited December 20, 2018 by DavidP

[RXP 2,338]

17 hours ago, Ted Striker said:

I find it hard to believe

Hi Ted,

This is why you might want to read official Garmin service bulletins instead. Some examples:

1) You can get the knowledge straight from the source, it is publicly accessible:

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/aviationalerts/

2) About the runway exclusions:

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/aviationalerts/service-advisory-1846-worldwide-navigation-database/

ISSUE:

The number of approaches and volume of data in the Worldwide Navigation Database will soon exceed the limits of the database.

RESOLUTION:

Beginning with Cycle 1810 (effective September 13, 2018):

Garmin will begin restricting the number of airports included in the Worldwide Navigation Database, based on the length of the longest runway. Heliports and Airports that do not contain a runway of greater than 5000 feet will be excluded from the Worldwide Navigation Database. All associated data with excluded airports (communication frequencies, approaches, runways, etc.) will also be excluded.

Beginning with Cycle 1910 (effective September 12, 2019):

Garmin will discontinue the Worldwide Navigation Database for the affected products listed above. Other regionalized versions of the navigation database will remain available and will have no restriction on airports within the coverage area.

 

3) Notice about among other things, a wrong CDI scale deviation on some approaches:

https://avdb.garmin.com/docs/garmin_data_exclusions.pdf

CDI (Course Deviation Indicator)/HSI (Horizontal Situation Indicator) scaling on a limited number of LNAV/VNAV, and LNAV+V approaches is incorrect. LPV approaches and LNAV approaches without advisory (+V) vertical guidance are not affected.
Please see the corresponding Garmin Service Advisory (SA1047) for additional information:
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/aviationalerts/service-advisory-1047-rev-a-lnavvnav-and-lnavv-full-scale-deflection/

 

[RXP 2,338]

16 hours ago, ckyliu said:

I have no idea what trainer version RXP is compatible with

Hi, you may find this information at least on our website main page:

End of Year Sale!
30% OFF for all editions of GTN 750/650
Now compatible with the latest Garmin GTN Trainer 6.50!
With Garmin / Jeppesen Aviation, Obstacles and Safetaxi® Databases cycle 1803

 

NB: this includes 6.50.1 too.

Edited December 20, 2018 by RXP

[RXP 2,338]

15 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

For that, the regional GNS databases DO include the smaller runways.

Just not the GNS WW database (due to size limitations)

I'm not certain about the Jeppesen "International" DB though (which is different from the worldwide DB).

What I'm certain of though, is the GNS V2 is compatible with the Jeppesen G600 DB.

[ckyliu 1,749]

Thanks Jean-Luc, I was just lazy and didn't search when i was writing that post! I knew you had updated your GTN recently to use one of the newer Garmin trainer versions, unlike some other developers....

Think I will be taking advantage of your sale, just need a nice GA bird to pop it in now!

[fppilot 4,355]

6 hours ago, RXP said:

What I'm certain of though, is the GNS V2 is compatible with the Jeppesen G600 DB. 

I am a bit confused about this.  The latest Garmin Trainer package:
GTN PC Trainer 6.50.1, G500/G600 TXi PC Trainer 2.20.1, GDU 620 PC Trainer 7.30.1 Launcher for software version 2.3.1.0
includes the G500/G600 TXI in the trainer..

Should it not somewhere in the package then have a compatible database?  I have scoured the folders/files in all the Program Data and Program Files (x86) locations and cannot come up with any.  I see that you are referencing Jeppesen, but then what is the Garmin Trainer for the G500/G600 using?

Edited December 20, 2018 by fppilot

[Ted Striker 338]

21 hours ago, fppilot said:

Ted, now you appear to be putting words in my mouth based on some agenda.

Frank, I assure you I am not doing this and sincerely apologize if I came across this way. I am merely trying to find out what databases these units come with and what is included. It is very confusing if your only experience is with the default GPS. I did not see on the RXP product website or the pinned forum topics any mention of what type or version of database the GNS comes with or if/how it can be upgraded. Hence all my newbie questions. The website says GNS version 3.3 but it is not clear if that is the RXP version or one of the Garmin Trainer version numbers.

After rereading all the posts and links in this thread I do now know that Garmin produces both regional and world wide databases for their real world products. I now understand why they eliminated the smaller airports in the world wide database if the storage space in the GPS was limited.

I did find your very thorough pinned topic on installing flight plans into the GNS and will certainly read that if I purchase one of these.

Ted

Edited December 20, 2018 by Ted Striker

[Ted Striker 338]

21 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

For that, the regional GNS databases DO include the smaller runways.

Just not the GNS WW database (due to size limitations)

Thank you for that Bert. Can you tell me which database the GNS comes up with?

Ted