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[20DEC18] Week after Christmas: Update for 747 coming...

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35 minutes ago, Wothan said:

I didn´t think it was allowed to talk about competitors products in the PMDG forum, or compare them to PMDG.

 

The MD-82 / 83 / 88 are not just 3 models

There are two engine types for the MD-82 and each version also comes with two different tails (Flat and Cone).

4 possible MD-82, 2 possible MD-83, 2 Possible MD-88 = 8 versions.

Guess  you missed  the  main point  in the  last  paragraph of kyles  post, best  to go back  and  re-read  it  again

 

 

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After waking up and reading the "tail end" of this post, I believe I may be correct in assuming there is a lot of FUI going on here? 😂. Guys, chill! Happy New Year.

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1 hour ago, pete_auau said:

Guess  you missed  the  main point  in the  last  paragraph of kyles  post, best  to go back  and  re-read  it  again

 

 

I did read his entire post.

In all fairness I just wanted to point out that the Maddog X has more than just 3 models, as stated in various posts - I did not mean to be trolling.

Not that there are big differences, but still....

 

I´m actually a fan of PMDG's products, but that does not make me a FB. I dont like to live in a cheesebell, so therfore I also use other developers addons, and during recent years a handfull of addons has come to life that are very close to, and even as good as the PMDG products - the Maddog X being one of them.

 

Problem here is that You cannot give any kind of critic without being bashed, not even even critics that are meant as a help to further enhance the great products PMDG are making. The general attitude, in f.ex Leonardos forum, is just more approachable and friendly - even if You point out bugs and features You would like to se fixed or enhanced.

 

 

Edited by Wothan
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1 hour ago, Wothan said:

I did read his entire post.

In all fairness I just wanted to point out that the Maddog X has more than just 3 models, as stated in various posts - I did not mean to be trolling.

Not that there are big differences, but still....

 

I´m actually a fan of PMDG's products, but that does not make me a FB. I dont like to live in a cheesebell, so therfore I also use other developers addons, and during recent years a handfull of addons has come to life that are very close to, and even as good as the PMDG products - the Maddog X being one of them.

 

Problem here is that You cannot give any kind of critic without being bashed, not even even critics that are meant as a help to further enhance the great products PMDG are making. The general attitude, in f.ex Leonardos forum, is just more approachable and friendly - even if You point out bugs and features You would like to se fixed or enhanced.

 

 

I am sorry but since you do not have access to our internal tools you do not know what user requests or user reporte dbugs have been fixed. There is only one way to report bugs, suggestions to us and this is via the support portal. Anything reported on these user forums 99% will be missed.

 

i suggest all to relax and enjoy the New Year, I would hate to start the year with locking threads.

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Chris Makris

PLEASE NOTE PMDG HAS DEPARTED AVSIM

You can find us at http://forum.pmdg.com

 

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10 minutes ago, Bigt said:

What is being updated??

 

-Thierry Nguepdjo

the 747-400 and -8. There has been no information yet about the change log, only that it will be for these two aircraft. 


,

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17 minutes ago, Ephedrin said:

the 747-400 and -8. There has been no information yet about the change log, only that it will be for these two aircraft. 

Wasn’t there a post about there being a slightly delay? I’m excited to see what the change log will say once it’s released. 


Dan

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And reading above the post about the bad attitude of PMDG towards people here I would like to point out one thing about my personal experience.

First of all I have written 1430 postings in the avsim forums, probably 1400 of them in the PMDG forum. Not always overall friendly and not always overall positive about PMDG, I've also critcized them for - what I felt- missing communication, care or whatever. I have NEVER been attacked or bashed or anything by anyone from PMDG. Never! Not Kyle, not Chris, not Robert, nobody. Sometimes Kyle slowed me down when I became too passiopnate about something I felt about other developers, sometimes a bit harsh when needed, he's still a mod, but never he or anyone else has shouted out to me. Why? Maybe because I talk about how I feel about it or about my opinion on something, but not that it IS like something. It's a huge difference if I don't agree with someone or if I say they are/do/don't xyz.  

However, almost every day, I see people coming in here, complaining about something not working, something not looking right because of cheesecake, because someone told them this was wrong. Fine, maybe it is or looks or behaves wrong. The developers of PMDG have worked hundreds or thousands of hours on their addons and have achieved a reputation of incredible realism. This doesn't make them gods, machines or perfect. Nore does it make them amateurs. They are professionals who absolutely know what they are doing, but at the same time they surely have some bias pro their work. Now imagine you are at work, having worked on something for weeks or months, finally believe it's great (PMDG have never released something bad, something they didn't feel to be good to go) only to be accused of being incapable, lazy, whatever. Even a very friendly formulated query can feel like a kick in the teeth when you are sure you've ruled everything out. Sure, every software has bugs that haven't been found during the beta tests. But when you find these bugs there is a difference if you notify them of an issue you have found that might be a bug, explain what you did and what you found or if you run in, accuse someone of being incapable and lazy, bringing up how much you paid and so on... alone bringing up the money FEELS like an accusation of deception. And tbh it's incredibly outrageous to constantly harp on one point or pick on single words someone has said only to get what you want. If people read the whole text, not just single words, this forum would be much more comfortable. But this requires one to think first and try to be at least a little emphatical.

And maybe some people on Avsim really should think about what they say and how they say it. This posting is full of grammatical mistakes and wrong words, I'm tired and still a little drunk, but I hope it's clear what I want to say. Even when English is not someone's mother language one can be friendly and neutral. And bringing up other developers just to put pressure on THIS developer is another outrageous way to achive something. No wonder that Kyle's patience is limited after this. What goes around, comes around and when you run into an office, slam the door and want your car fixed, it won't work out too quickly. (That car again...)

 And I hope it's clear that I don't attack anyone here but write generally.

Edited by Ephedrin
important typo...
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19 minutes ago, Wise87 said:

Wasn’t there a post about there being a slightly delay?

Only because someone was friendly and made the mistake to give a release week. 

 

Quote

I’m excited to see what the change log will say 

me too.


,

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6 hours ago, Ephedrin said:

I would suggest going to your family for the 1st day if the new year and have fun.

Not all of us have families, unfortunately. Even then, some of us still have to work.

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1 hour ago, Ephedrin said:

And reading above the post about the bad attitude of PMDG towards people here I would like to point out one thing about my personal experience.

First of all I have written 1430 postings in the avsim forums, probably 1400 of them in the PMDG forum. Not always overall friendly and not always overall positive about PMDG, I've also critcized them for - what I felt- missing communication, care or whatever. I have NEVER been attacked or bashed or anything by anyone from PMDG. Never! Not Kyle, not Chris, not Robert, nobody. Sometimes Kyle slowed me down when I became too passiopnate about something I felt about other developers, sometimes a bit harsh when needed, he's still a mod, but never he or anyone else has shouted out to me. Why? Maybe because I talk about how I feel about it or about my opinion on something, but not that it IS like something. It's a huge difference if I don't agree with someone or if I say they are/do/don't xyz.  

However, almost every day, I see people coming in here, complaining about something not working, something not looking right because of cheesecake, because someone told them this was wrong. Fine, maybe it is or looks or behaves wrong. The developers of PMDG have worked hundreds or thousands of hours on their addons and have achieved a reputation of incredible realism. This doesn't make them gods, machines or perfect. Nore does it make them amateurs. They are professionals who absolutely know what they are doing, but at the same time they surely have some bias pro their work. Now imagine you are at work, having worked on something for weeks or months, finally believe it's great (PMDG have never released something bad, something they didn't feel to be good to go) only to be accused of being incapable, lazy, whatever. Even a very friendly formulated query can feel like a kick in the teeth when you are sure you've ruled everything out. Sure, every software has bugs that haven't been found during the beta tests. But when you find these bugs there is a difference if you notify them of an issue you have found that might be a bug, explain what you did and what you found or if you run in, accuse someone of being incapable and lazy, bringing up how much you paid and so on... alone bringing up the money FEELS like an accusation of deception. And tbh it's incredibly outrageous to constantly harp on one point or pick on single words someone has said only to get what you want. If people read the whole text, not just single words, this forum would be much more comfortable. But this requires one to think first and try to be at least a little emphatical.

And maybe some people on Avsim really should think about what they say and how they say it. This posting is full of grammatical mistakes and wrong words, I'm tired and still a little drunk, but I hope it's clear what I want to say. Even when English is not someone's mother language one can be friendly and neutral. And bringing up other developers just to put pressure on THIS developer is another outrageous way to achive something. No wonder that Kyle's patience is limited after this. What goes around, comes around and when you run into an office, slam the door and want your car fixed, it won't work out too quickly. (That car again...)

 And I hope it's clear that I don't attack anyone here but write generally.

In my post I never said I was bashed by the developers, there are enough users around to bash posters with either positive or negative critisism.

As a former FS developer, I know how much work there is put tino addon aircraft, but that also holdes true for every other developement team.

My initial post was not put pressure on the release of the upcumming PMDG update, quote me where I did that, I have no problem waiting on the update.

My only mission, and all I did, was to correct the accusation that the Maddog X only had 3 models, while the PMDG 747-400/8 had 21. The outcome was the common feedback from other users that don´t like to see any critical (positive as well as negitve) feedback or corrections. This is a very common beahviour in this forum, but very selvdom in other support forums, be it A2a, Leonardo, Majestic or elsewhere.

As said numerous times - I´m a big fan of the PMDG Jetliners (I own the 737, 737 expansion, 747-400/8, 777-200/300 and DC-6) and regard them as benchmark addons, but that said I still feel other developers are doing as good a job on their favorite aricraft marks as PMDG. Pointing ot bugs or possible bugs, or request for features or enhancements are just more well recieved in the other forum than here - at least thats my many yearlong experience, otheres might see it differently. Once again though, my post, which only was about a correction turned into a string of unfriendly feedback.

 

Now I will keep quiete and just look forward to the upcomming update and fly the PMDG beauties instead of lingering here.

Happy New Year to all of You btw...

Edited by Wothan
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3 minutes ago, Wothan said:

In my post I never said I was bashed by the developers, there are enough users around to bash posters with either positive or negative critisism.

As a former FS developer, I know how much work there is put tino addon aircraft, but that also holdes true for every other developement team.

My initial post was not put pressure on the release of the upcumming PMDG update, quote me where I did that, I have no problem waiting on the update.

My only mission, and all I did, was to correct the accusation that the Maddog X only had 3 models, while the PMDG 747-400/8 had 21. The outcome was the common feedback from other users that don´t like to see any critical (positive as well as negitve) feedback or corrections. This is a very common beahviour in this forum, but very selvdom in other support forums, be it A2a, Leonardo, Majestic or elsewhere.

As said numerous times - I´m a big fan of the PMDG Jetliners (I own the 737, 737 expansion, 747-400/8, 777-200/300 and DC-6) and regard them as benchmark addons, but that said I still feel other developers are doing as good a job on their favorite aricraft marks as PMDG. Pointing ot bugs or possible bugs, or request for features or enhancements are just more well recieved in the other forum than here - at least thats my many yearlong experience, otheres might see it differently. Once again though, my post, which only was about a correction turned into a string of unfriendly feedback.

 

Now I will keep quiete and just look forward to the upcomming update and fly the PMDG beauties instead of lingering here.

Happy New Year to all of You btw...

 

1 hour ago, Ephedrin said:

And I hope it's clear that I don't attack anyone here but write generally.

Finn,

to be fair, I haven't checked on any names now as I write this answer, so I haven't checked back if it was "only you" who brought up Leonardo. They do a great job and they are very friendly fellows in their forum. But to be fair again, I dare to say that it helps a lot that you have to sign up in another forum again to receive support and I hope once PMDG move to their own site it will calm down a little, too. Also I believe that the DC9/MD80 is far from as popular as the Boeing 737/777/747 and so is Leonardo compared to PMDG, which surely helps too, kind of. PMDG has always been THE top-notch delevoper in flight sim and since Prepar3d and XPL have evolved into such great simulators they really have to fight to keep their position. Their competitors are extremely strong and I would say that Leonardo has overtaken them in some terms like immersion, and so has FSLabs in others, eg lighting, icing , environmental influence actually. PMDG currently seem to do their old code up which their addons are written in to move on with this top development. However this takes time. They are a company of I believe 8 people and they have to rewrite a 737, maybe a 777, and other things are coming too. Constantly beating them for being slow won't work out positively for us. It can easily frustrate them and once someone starts to work only for the money the quality will suffer. 

This behaviour that I was relating to didn't come up only now and from you (once again, I haven't checked the names) but has been around on avsim for months and years. You find it not only in the PMDG forum but also over at FS2Crew, HiFi and others. Accusation, sometimes insults and other stuff. That's what I mean with "generally". I have always made the experience that - when I found bugs or when I thought I had - a normal converstation was a lot more valueable than a dispute where I would have pointed out how displeased I was. And there surely would have been moments when I was really mad at PMDG. However except for one thing a normal conversation has always brought up explanations either by the staff or by beta testers that where comprehensible and excusable (like the missing performance calculation of the 748). 

31 minutes ago, Wothan said:

and just look forward to the upcomming update and fly the PMDG beauties

absolutely... no need to argue! I'm really eager about those "new features, we're not expecting" Robert was telling us about. 


,

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6 hours ago, Olympic260 said:

I am sorry but since you do not have access to our internal tools you do not know what user requests or user reporte dbugs have been fixed. There is only one way to report bugs, suggestions to us and this is via the support portal. Anything reported on these user forums 99% will be missed.

 

i suggest all to relax and enjoy the New Year, I would hate to start the year with locking threads.

You could start the New year by moderating your own staff a bit 😉 or maybe it's company policy?

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Johnny Botherston

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On 12/31/2018 at 1:17 PM, Werner747 said:

That is quite a mouth full from a chap with only 20 posts, you are clearly quite new.   A word of advice - your attempts at looking like a wise guy comes off pretty cheap unfortunately.   Are you a software developer?   Do you know what actually goes into software development?   If not, please tell us why you are qualified to give such a lofty opinion in here?   The biggest problem we have these days on public fora are people who think  or believe somehow they know everything about everything else and it gets a little tiresome.  

So please, just don't do it.

 

You assume too much 😉


Johnny Botherston

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