CS 757 III v1.3

[Reader 2,021]

As you wish.

Their position is clear, your choice is made.

They do not coincide.

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by nolonger

[Jim Young 2,356]

1 hour ago, TrevorS said:

But the point has been missed. I am asking folk who have the CS 757 to please test my findings and report back - it's that simple.

I have tested your findings and did not see a problem whatsoever.  The FMC does an excellent job determining the various VRefs for takeoff and landings based on my input of a flap rating. I usually set it at 5 for takeoff).  I set the trim to 27 and take off turning on the EPR.  Then raise the gear and set the AP.  It is amazing how easy the aircraft lifts off and lands based on my inputs into the FMC.  I never saw where the tape went into the red when lowering the flaps.  If you are seeing this "problem" I would not worry about it as it does not affect the operation of the FS aircraft in any way.  If I saw where the flaps warnings were coming on even though I was within the parameters and not in the red, I would be concerned there was an issue with the FMC but so far, no issues.  In fact I can lower my flaps to 30 and the aircraft will not lower them until the speed has been reduced enough for that particular flap setting.

I have never looked at the vrefs in the speed tape in the adi and I doubt many others look at the vrefs for flaps too (other than to make sure they are set for takeoff and landing).  The aircraft is so automatic it is unbelievable and makes it a great joy flying.  I suspect this is one of the reasons why the team at CS are not interested in your findings.  That's getting too deep into the nitty gritty of flight simulation IMHO.  There are just too many other things to be concerned about (such as the proper programming of the FMC, startup procedures, takeoff and landing).  That's all I worry about.

You might have a legitimate complaint but I do not see it.

[kingm56 1,031]

32 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

I have tested your findings and did not see a problem whatsoever.  The FMC does an excellent job determining the various VRefs for takeoff and landings based on my input of a flap rating. I usually set it at 5 for takeoff).  I set the trim to 27 and take off turning on the EPR.  Then raise the gear and set the AP.  It is amazing how easy the aircraft lifts off and lands based on my inputs into the FMC.  I never saw where the tape went into the red when lowering the flaps.  If you are seeing this "problem" I would not worry about it as it does not affect the operation of the FS aircraft in any way.  If I saw where the flaps warnings were coming on even though I was within the parameters and not in the red, I would be concerned there was an issue with the FMC but so far, no issues.  In fact I can lower my flaps to 30 and the aircraft will not lower them until the speed has been reduced enough for that particular flap setting.

I have never looked at the vrefs in the speed tape in the adi and I doubt many others look at the vrefs for flaps too (other than to make sure they are set for takeoff and landing).  The aircraft is so automatic it is unbelievable and makes it a great joy flying.  I suspect this is one of the reasons why the team at CS are not interested in your findings.  That's getting too deep into the nitty gritty of flight simulation IMHO.  There are just too many other things to be concerned about (such as the proper programming of the FMC, startup procedures, takeoff and landing).  That's all I worry about.

You might have a legitimate complaint but I do not see it.

Jim, 

You and I were making the same point; to that end, I don’t believe CS concerns themselves with minute programmatic details; they do, however, program all basic functionality. Concerning the former, why should they?  After all, this add-on cost 50% less than those offerings from such companies who concern themselves with such fidelity.  To that point, I believe the OPs request was unreasonable; specifically, the part requesting posters go to CS formun to advocate on his behalf. 

[G550flyer 1,013]

Actually, he does have a valid point. Most people wouldn't notice unless they actually fly aircraft or very familiar with the specific system. The first plane that I flew that had a visible minimum maneuver speed caution was the DC10. If you dialed in a speed that would put you below minimum maneuver, you would get a little alpha @  inside the speed FMA. The autothrottle system would only slow to minimum maneuver in this case. The aircraft I've flown since then will show the minimum speed range along the speed tape, plus give you the moose antlers on the PFD at 80% of stall speed.   

What the OP is speaking of, is the F indicator along the speed tape and the yellow bar along the speed tape. The F tells you the flap maneuvering speed for your current flap configuration. For example, the flap maneuver speed for flaps 15 in the 757 is VREF30 + 20. The top of the yellow bar tells you the minimum maneuver speed for the current flap configuration. I know, Boeing just had to complicate things by adding all of these different speeds along with public math. Plus it takes for ever to clean up a Boeing aircraft. In my beloved DC10, we only flew minimum maneuver and never had a flap maneuvering speed. Plus, I only had two calls regarding flaps during clean up. Flaps up and slats retract. Non of this milking the flaps in or out.

In the CS757, the F and the top of the yellow bar is at the same speed. This means that they are using the same speed for both. Who knows if they are using the flap maneuver speed or the minimum maneuver speed. One could check by taking the flap maneuver speed for flaps 15 and make a comparison.

Either way, I'll post some pics and point out the issue in the CS forum and it'll be up to them if they listen or not.

 

PS, I only get involved in these type discussions to maintain realism. If you model it and its incorrect, I just pass on the info.

     

Edited December 28, 2018 by G550flyer
change

[overspeed3 410]

I was not aware that Captain Sim products was located in Russia - that certainly might explain the lack of a timely response, or any response in the past. 

I myself just purchased a CS issue for the first time, the 757 III plus extension during the Xmas sale...  After a few minor hiccups after installation, I'm impressed with this aircraft.

  

[pedrotrindade 335]

29 minutes ago, overspeed3 said:

I was not aware that Captain Sim products was located in Russia - that certainly might explain the lack of a timely response, or any response in the past.

What do you mean?

[Jim Young 2,356]

1 hour ago, G550flyer said:

The F tells you the flap maneuvering speed for your current flap configuration. For example, the flap maneuver speed for flaps 15 in the 757 is VREF30 + 20.

I have no desire to learn this function of flying.  Why should I?  It is a simulator.  Not all functions in real life work.  For instance, do you hit F2 after you land a real aircraft? Do you squeeze your joystick to put on the brakes?  There are a lot of things in flight simulation that cannot be compared to reality.  For me, the key is to be able to successfully program the fmc, set the flaps, lights, start up the aircraft, call in a truck to give me a pushback, atc to tell me where to go, and then land and taxi to the gate.  In real life I am positive you need to know flap maneuvering speeds but that's no fun in flight simulation.  Let the developers create an aircraft near the real life thing and let us learn and enjoy flying it.  We need to stay away from the minuscule issues that really have no bearing whatsoever to flight simulation.  Real life flying, yes.

I have a feeling you have a situation where it is impossible for a developer to program accurately the information and, even so, it would be useless to us amateur flight simmers.  Let us enjoy this hobby and stay away from the complicated stuff.

[honanhal 1,420]

Not the point of this discussion, but just wanted to point out that CS is based in Ukraine, not Russia. Not the same country for the past several decades.

[G550flyer 1,013]

57 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

I have no desire to learn this function of flying.  Why should I?  It is a simulator.  Not all functions in real life work.  For instance, do you hit F2 after you land a real aircraft? Do you squeeze your joystick to put on the brakes?  There are a lot of things in flight simulation that cannot be compared to reality

For every one person who seeks simplicity, there are thousands looking for as real as it gets. You said the word yourself, simulation. Fortunately, simulation is a vast world where both complexity and simplicity reside. You may not care for such realism, but others do and a lot of developers cater to it. Me myself, I don't push complexity on others. I clearly stated if they model it, I'll assist by passing information, not demands. There are a plethora of addons that give different levels of development to meet the many tastes in simulation. I started my dream in simulation and have been fortunate to have a flying career of over 20 years combined military and civil. Some may never get the opportunity, so they stick with sims. I have assisted many developers in reaching their realism goals and will continue to do so. I will respect your opinion as we all should respect the opinions others. Have a good weekend.

 

[BrianW 124]

1 hour ago, Jim Young said:

For instance, do you hit F2 after you land a real aircraft? Do you squeeze your joystick to put on the brakes? 

I don’t and I can’t remember the last time I used either F2 or a button for brakes, and I assume many users here can say the same.

1 hour ago, Jim Young said:

We need to stay away from the minuscule issues that really have no bearing whatsoever to flight simulation. 

One of the great things about flight simulators is the wide variety of experiences they can produce for all levels of users.  It can be as simple or complex as you want it to be.  I think that’s why all of the all the aircraft recommendation threads are all over the map. We have users of all experience levels here, but no way to tell what type of simmer any given poster is. I do however think it’s unfair to assume because you don’t need certain details that nobody wants or needs them.  It’s always easier to have those details and have the basic user not notice them than the other way around.  Don’t forget that Prepar3d is also marketed as a training simulator where things like maneuvering speeds are important. 

Edited December 29, 2018 by BrianW
speeling

[Jim Young 2,356]

29 minutes ago, BrianW said:

Don’t forget that Prepar3d is also marketed as a training simulator where things like maneuvering speeds are important. 

Yes, for some of the default aircraft.  If they are using any of the commercial addons for training, that would be scary. 

[Jim Young 2,356]

40 minutes ago, G550flyer said:

Fortunately, simulation is a vast world where both complexity and simplicity reside. You may not care for such realism, but others do and a lot of developers cater to it.

Then those who want complexity are going to have to show photos and data that proves your points regarding the speed tape.  I think that is going to be difficult as I am really having a hard time reading those numbers and then comparing them to the exact load on my aircraft and the flap settings. 

 

53 minutes ago, honanhal said:

CS is based in Ukraine, not Russia. Not the same country for the past several decades.

I was told Russia some years ago and it somehow stuck with me.  I do not think it makes much difference.  I'm sure the Ukrainian's are just as competent in programming as many here in the US and Europe.  In any case, I appreciate their contributions to the community over the past two decades.

[PWJT8D 446]

You can't buy a Ford and demand the quality of a Ferrari.

[BrianW 124]

1 hour ago, Jim Young said:

Yes, for some of the default aircraft.  If they are using any of the commercial addons for training, that would be scary. 

Like anything it depends on how it’s used.  Nobody expects the CBT used during a type rating to teach them handling characteristics either.  Even a cockpit poster can and is used as a training device. 

[G550flyer 1,013]

56 minutes ago, BrianW said:

 Even a cockpit poster can and is used as a training device. 

I've done this with every type I've flown. It's perfect for learning flows and reciting everything an item does as you work through the flow. This way you know exactly what to expect before you even flip the switch.