Orbx P3D 4.4 and NO SEASONS!

[pmb 5,137]

34 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

Why do I get the feeling that something like this will be in the corner for upcoming P3D releases.  The teaser is already here - this is using XPlane but I will not be surprised that like this could happen very soon in Prepar3d world

https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/165519-true-earth-and-seasons/?do=findComment&comment=1454799

This was my idea, too. With growing popularity of photo-sceneries the landclass way of providing 4 or 5 sets of textures may become just impracticable because of storage and bandwith limitations for the average user throughout the foreseeable future. While I am all but an X-Plane fan, Austin's paradigm of not doing texture seasons but providing shader/particle-based solutions may turn out the better solution in the end, despite having been condemned numerous times. I would not be surprised if IPACS - lacking any legacy ballast - came up with a similar solution for their photo-only AeroflyFS2.

Kind regards, Michael

Edited December 31, 2018 by pmb

[glider1 90]

35 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

Ah man this thread has been a good giggle, so much outrage! It seems many posters aren't flying VFR or used photo scenery before.

Wide area photographic scenery has never had seasons to my knowledge because of the practicalities of providing it; required space as pointed out is already huge, but you have to generate the seasons since source photos don't exist and doing that convincingly is stilling years away imo. It's hard enough to just colour balance one season to start with!

Landclass based scenery is great for you instrument flyers and has seasons. I have photoscenery for visual navigation and sight seeing so can't sacrifice the accuracy but can't say I miss seasons all that much. If you must have seasons just stick with your existing ORBX regions (these will cut it for VFR nav, just about), no need for all the venting!

Right. So true earth technology is for pure VFR nav with the hope for future tech innovation to add seasons dynamically. Regional sceneries are for mix between IFR/VFR nav in all seasons and ftx global/vector is for mainly IFR. Sounds like a good mix of products now that I think about it.

Edited December 31, 2018 by glider1

[ckyliu 1,749]

25 minutes ago, Greggy_D said:

I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I certainly do not see anyone out of line in this thread.

I didn't mean to suggest anyone was out of line, I have rephrased a little. Others are perfectly entitled to their opinions. It just seemed many are angry/disappointed at lack of seasons in a photoscenery product, but it's always been that way. The existing landclass products will still be there to use though.

@glider1 yep that's pretty much how I see it. Of course you can fly IFR over photoscenery if you don't mind lack of seasons, but engaging VFR over something like Global plus Vector is tough.

Edited December 31, 2018 by ckyliu

[F737MAX 5,589]

30 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

Ah man this thread has been a good giggle, so much outrage! It seems many posters aren't flying VFR or used photo scenery before.

So nice that you got a giggle from other people's understandable disappointment.

Simmers like me have been using photo scenery for years with its limitations of no autogen and one summer season. 
Then finally, earlier this year, ORBX developed the holy grail of adding these missing items to ortho sceneries for their TE Netherlands product.
There is disappointment from the expectation that was created and achieved by TE Netherlands is now no longer the aim of ORBX for their TE series.

I would have paid an appropriate increased amount to cover the associated extra work and download costs so that I could finally move away from my legacy Horizon VFR photo scenery products and embrace the new tech that ORBX had developed.
 

40 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

Why do I get the feeling that something like this will be in the corner for upcoming P3D releases.  The teaser is already here - this is using XPlane but I will not be surprised that like this could happen very soon in Prepar3d world

https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/165519-true-earth-and-seasons/?do=findComment&comment=1454799

I sure hope so!
That or large semi-transparent texture overlays to cover vast areas of open spaces with season appropriate shades and tones.

That ought to solve ORBX bandwidth and users storage space constraints.

[ckyliu 1,749]

@F737NGsorry I might have missed something; ORBX developed seasons for TrueeEarthNL but aren't doing then for GB onwards, am I understanding you right? 

If so I find the disappointment more understandable. 

I was just thrilled at the prospect of having good 3D atop imagery. I already use ES Treescapes but was disappointed at JustFlight Revolution X.

Edited December 31, 2018 by ckyliu

[F737MAX 5,589]

1 minute ago, ckyliu said:

@F737NGsorry I might have missed something; ORBX developed seasons for TrueeEarthNL but aren't doing then for GB, am I understanding you right? 

If so I find the disappointment more understandable. 

Yes, look at ORBX's product description for TE Netherlands in P3D:

Quote

Key Features:

• The entirety of Netherlands depicted in complete detail!
• 41,500km2 of photoreal terrain
• Complete seasonal variation: 5 hand-coloured seasons!
• Full 3D night lighting and night ground textures

Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter and hard Winter (snow cover) are all in the product and it looks great! It also blends very well with neighbouring FTX EU Germany North.

[glider1 90]

5 minutes ago, ckyliu said:

@F737NGsorry I might have missed something; ORBX developed seasons for TrueeEarthNL but aren't doing then for GB onwards, am I understanding you right? 

If so I find the disappointment more understandable. 

It is understandable but if I were the CEO of Orbx I would have regretted doing seasons for True Earth NL as a waste of resources that could have gone to other products. Better to keep true earth single season so that it has a specific reason for existing - pure VFR in normal weather conditions. Later on add dynamic seasons tech to it.

[ckyliu 1,749]

@F737NGThank you, I understand now, I'm a little out the loop. I guess the technology has finally arrived to allow generation of convincing seasons (or they had source imagery)? It's a shame this isn't coming to GB but I presume they couldn't justify the additional investment.

[Bigt 192]

Will this approach be the same for other TE scenery going forward? As in, future TE releases will all be single-season only?

[F737MAX 5,589]

2 minutes ago, glider1 said:

It is understandable but if I were the CEO of Orbx I would have regretted doing seasons for True Earth NL as a waste of resources that could have gone to other products. Better to keep true earth single season so that it has a specific reason for existing - pure VFR in normal weather conditions. Later on add dynamic seasons tech to it.

Don't mind that approach at all - just admit to it being cumbersome and state that they are working at developing that sort of solution.

The current situation (that we are aware of) is that ORBX gave you something before, but now they cannot be bothered to do it again because XP11 and AFS2 can't use this extra work and it takes too long.

This has turned me from having TE GB a definite purchase to probably skipping it entirely.
I don't understand how you can have TE Germany and TE Pacific North West as summer only - these are also places that have distinct seasons!

[Afterburner 374]

The whole TE thing boils down to tastes and preferences. Sure, if you are familiar with the area covered by TE, you might get ecstatic about the idea of seeing your house and every little thing in your city from the airplane (at low altitudes anyway). But I think a good chunk of us are PMDG and/or IFR flyers, and having a TE scenery would be an unnecessary drain on resources and performance. Those who complain about TE covering one season only: Are you willing to pay the price in terms of SSD space and product price (development costs) for having all 5 seasons?  How often do you fly in the area?  Also, a focus on TE deprives ORBX from resources for other in-demand products, such as OpenLC.

Personally, I like the FTX approach, which gives a very good tradeoff between accuracy and resource consumption for both VFR and IFR flyers. For example, Germany North + South covers all seasons and requires only 16 GB of HD space (probably 1/20th of the space required by TE), yet it provides lots of landmarks and details to satisfy low-altitude VFR flyers. I wish ORBX would focus on more FTX regions in the US and other parts of the world.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Afterburner

[mikeymike 360]

Lol, you guys are trying to chase reaism!!

i suggest you all go and get your pilots licence and fly the real deal.

Sorry i don’t mean to be rude.

Flight simming has come a long way.

enbrace it 😀 for what it is now.

That’s my opinion.

mike

[Bigt 192]

30 minutes ago, mikeymike said:

Lol, you guys are trying to chase reaism!!

i suggest you all go and get your pilots licence and fly the real deal.

Sorry i don’t mean to be rude.

Flight simming has come a long way.

enbrace it 😀 for what it is now.

That’s my opinion.

mike

Umm, ya. The idea behind all these fancy weather programs, complex aircraft such as those from PMDG and FSL, as well all the complex scenery addons, etc. are all in the effort to "chase realism" as you stated. Isn't that the idea of all these things?

[kevinfirth 1,393]

6 hours ago, ckyliu said:

 It just seemed many are angry/disappointed at lack of seasons in a photoscenery product, but it's always been that way.

Wrong. Its not always been that way, the SDK has always allowed for seasonal photoreal variations.  Its just a little tricky to produce the colour variations from a single source image.  Note, difficult to do well, not impossible - Earth Simulations did it for their Autogenesis product back in 2014/2015.  Oh, didnt OrbX buy all of Earth Sims intellectual property? Yes they did...!  Even FSEarthTiles can create seasonal photoreal imagery.. 

My point is..it doesnt HAVE to be that way...

[Christopher Low 5,353]

Quote

I’ve never understood who the market is for single-season photoscenery. I know it’s not me....

That would be me.....and the thousands of other flight simmers who prefer an accurate recreation of the real world with one season rather than boring generic stuff with multiple seasons.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Christopher Low