Why isn't there a LOT more study level aircrafts?

[Bob Scott 7,720]

As somebody who once was a professional trainer of pilots, "study level" can be a lot of things.

We used to start our (USAF) pilots out on their pilot training adventure on a folding chair in front of a cardboard mockup of the panel.  There are a fair number of "part-task trainers" that simulate an FMS, or navigation instruments, or coordination procedures used by air and ground combat elements etc that are all "study-level" simulators, ostensibly because their entire raison d'etre is...well...studying.

So i don't get too hung up on the terminology.  Heck, even the multi-million dollar level-D full-motion platforms have limits as to what they can do...like the inability to simulate G-forces as one big example.  None of them is perfect, but all of them, no matter their limitations or lack of sophistication, can still serve a purpose in the training arena.

Regards

[pracines 823]

I think that even the next offerings from PMDG & FSL is going to blow us away. All this talk of FSL being at the top is going to result in some 'questions' being asked. 😂

I wonder what the top level will look like in 30 more years...(flutter testing) 🤯 

[mustiej 0]

For me, study level or as any aircraft in a flightsim should look or behave like how PMDG's products looks/behaves. 

• Fantastic centimeter detail of the aircraft's modelling/FCS movements including a set of liveries(shiny/weathered) or engines/variants.
• The same for the cockpit but including sound engine and wind/turbulence etc.
• For the electronic systems; as long as I can go from cold dark state to cat ils landings, I'm sure most systems like FMC, autothrottle etc is included
• Extra's: PMDG like FMC page for setups/settings/groundcrew and failures, some importance of ac testing like engine fire tests or things like compatibility with GSX etc..

I believe only PMDG, QW(barely), majestic, Aerosoft(barely), fslabs and a2a(and others) for GA including twin engine jets have this quality. Maybe I should start flying GA and appreciate the scenery more? hmm...

[pracines 823]

8 minutes ago, mustiej said:

Maybe I should start flying GA and appreciate the scenery more? hmm...

If you do, the best option at this point is the Vertex DA-62 - simply excellent.

[Buffy Foster 133]

The DA-62 is really nice, but I like a high-wing plane like the A2A Cessna 182 for sightseeing. :)

[speedyTC 195]

6 hours ago, Chock said:

On most add-on airliners, you can cheerfully hit shift+E plus a number, and the cargo doors will open even if there is no electrical and hydraulic power, whereas on the real thing you'd have to hand crank the hydraulic pump to do that, and I don't know of any simulated airliner which has that manual hydraulic feature actually working. 

Doesn't the FSL A320 simulate this?

[Chock 17,769]

24 minutes ago, speedyTC said:

Doesn't the FSL A320 simulate this?

Can't say I have ever checked. If it does and anyone wants to try it, at the rear of the wing to body fairing there is a little pop open panel. In there is a stowed handle which you fit onto a lug and then you pump that backwardsand forwards about nine million times whilst someone else holds the door operating lever forwards and the cargo door should crank open. Then you go to hospital with a severely strained arm lol.

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by Chock

[Raging Bull 23]

16 hours ago, Nyxx said:

"Study Level" P3D only

The top tier

FSL A320

FSL A319 <these are not just model differences its a different aircraft.

Hopefully soon A321

PMDG NG-777-747- -8

Leonardo MadDog

Majestic

2nd tier

iFly

TDFI

3rd Tier

Quality Wings 787

Captain Sim 757

Aerosoft 318-321

Not going to include small jets or GA's as their development time is a fraction of producing all of the above.

 

 

Lol. The iFly isn’t close to being in the 3rd tier let alone the 2nd. 

How on earth they can release a 747 with such awful flight dynamics is beyond me. All 3 ‘different’ engine models have EXACTLY the same performance. A sound difference only. False advertising at best. Deceitful at  worst. 

Watching it enter nearly 10 degrees nose down pitch at 5000-6000 ft /min in a normal LNAV decent was embarrassingly amusing. I spoke to some real 747 pilots who said that’s not even close to accurate and some 744 manuals I have support it. 

 

Come on, stop flogging a dead horse. The op is right. You can count on one had the genuine, ‘close to real thing’ add-ons. IFly ain’t one of them. Not in this century. Ever. 

[cowpatz 243]

1 hour ago, Raging Bull said:

 

Lol. The iFly isn’t close to being in the 3rd tier let alone the 2nd. 

How on earth they can release a 747 with such awful flight dynamics is beyond me. All 3 ‘different’ engine models have EXACTLY the same performance. A sound difference only. False advertising at best. Deceitful at  worst. 

Watching it enter nearly 10 degrees nose down pitch at 5000-6000 ft /min in a normal LNAV decent was embarrassingly amusing. I spoke to some real 747 pilots who said that’s not even close to accurate and some 744 manuals I have support it. 

 

Come on, stop flogging a dead horse. The op is right. You can count on one had the genuine, ‘close to real thing’ add-ons. IFly ain’t one of them. Not in this century. Ever. 

Well spoken by a PMDG sycophant troller. How many hours do you have on the 747 there RB to make you such an expert on 747 flight dynamics and engine sounds?

An LNAV descent?  What was the pitch mode then as LNAV is not a pitch mode? I have flown this model a lot and it is a pleasure to fly.....as much as it was to fly the real ones for 14 years. Oh and the RW 747 it will go nose down 10 degrees at 5-6000 ft if you are clumsy or agressive with it. all depends what you did to get it there JB.

I also fly the PMDG 777 and love it although it has some issues too.....but I wouldn't openly bag it.

If you are having issues with the FDE then there may be an issue with YOUR set up/installation. Very hard to get these things perfect, what with the many varied computer/controller hardware options and settings, variable sensitivities and null zones and there is FSUIPC tweaks as well.

 

 

.

Edited January 13, 2019 by cowpatz
Reluctant self moderation

[speedyTC 195]

6 hours ago, Chock said:

Can't say I have ever checked. If it does and anyone wants to try it, at the rear of the wing to body fairing there is a little pop open panel. In there is a stowed handle which you fit onto a lug and then you pump that backwardsand forwards about nine million times whilst someone else holds the door operating lever forwards and the cargo door should crank open. Then you go to hospital with a severely strained arm lol.

 

Ah, ok, I see what you mean. The whole arm strain business is not simulated in the FSL but if you start the sim with a cold & dark "pit", switch on just the onboard batteries and then try opening the cargo hold doors they do open but very, very slowly indeed. Which, in a way, I suppose is a sim representation of the arm sprain. No Ctrl+E nonsense with this aircraft

[robert young 2,897]

Autopilot behaviour is not strictly, or often only vaguely, connected with core aerodynamics, particularly if the manually controlled flight behaviour is based on FSX or P3d's core flight model. LNAV and VNAV are nearly always a separate process driven by xml files or .dll files which are only as good as the programming that goes into them. Thus you could have a sim airliner that flies extremely well with autopilot off but does odd things with autopilot on, or more often, the user will occasionally enter a descent or climb command that would be beyond the capabilities of the a/p, or are unreasonably outside the normal parameters of autopilot 

Edited January 13, 2019 by robert young

[Julkensen 47]

35 minutes ago, speedyTC said:

7 hours ago, Chock said:

Can't say I have ever checked. If it does and anyone wants to try it, at the rear of the wing to body fairing there is a little pop open panel. In there is a stowed handle which you fit onto a lug and then you pump that backwardsand forwards about nine million times whilst someone else holds the door operating lever forwards and the cargo door should crank open. Then you go to hospital with a severely strained arm lol.

You don't have to pump the handle but the behaviour of all doors is acurately simulated according to the aircraft state.

They also have an accurate refueling panel.

Pmdg showed the way to go in term of quality aircarft and fslabs expanded on that. Can't wait to see what these two have in store for the next years.

[anden145 2,285]

DCS F/A-18C Hornet by Eagles Dynamics
(Since someone brought up X-Plane)

[pete_auau 1,158]

1 hour ago, Anders Bermann said:

DCS F/A-18C Hornet by Eagles Dynamics
(Since someone brought up X-Plane)

well  since  you  brought it  up  lets  go  with   heartbur  dcs  f-14  when its  released😀

[anden145 2,285]

8 minutes ago, pete_auau said:

well  since  you  brought it  up  lets  go  with   heartbur  dcs  f-14  when its  released😀

Ah yes. Haven't tried it - but it does look amazing!