Recommendations for first airliner in P3D v4?

[SunDevil56 183]

54 minutes ago, Mace said:

CLS DC-10 for example, requires considerable modification to have functionality in P3Dv4, something a beginner would NOT be able to do.  

Like what exactly...?? 

I've been using the CLS DC-10 quite successfully in P3D v4.4, and i've not noted any specific problems thus far, and no modifications have been needed on my system, but if you have specific areas of functionality that don't work correctly,  i'll be happy to test those out on my setup and report back...

Edited February 6, 2019 by SunDevil56

[Nyxx 6,993]

3 hours ago, tjstreak said:

 they have forgotten what it is like learning how to use the sim.  They are not being helpful when they suggest that someone purchase an expensive ($100 plus) and complex procedural model to a newcomer. 

People have been around a long time it does not mean they suffering with senile dementia. Yes they are being helpful, because they can remember, hence why they suggest what they do, not because the NG is or not there favorite aircraft, or they have forgotten what it's like to learn. Give people some crited.  

I remember only to well learning the NG. It's also better to spent $100 on one aircraft like the NG, that 9 years later I still fly every week. Thats 9 years worth for $100.

You only have to enter "PMDG NG FMC" into youtube to find pages of tutorials to watch. If this does not make learning "complex procedurall" easy I don't know what does? 

I recommended it but it's not my favorite aircraft its not even top 2. 

You also say "purchase an expensive ($100 plus)" how do you know what's expensive to the OP or anyone else? what's expensive to one person can be cheap to another and what's cheap to someone could be expensive to another, it's not up to you or anyone to judge someone else's idea of expensive or not. The OP did not even give any indication on what we wants to spent did he? so just because what you may think is expensive does not automatically make it expensive to the OP does it. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Nyxx

[overspeed3 410]

Yes, the Majestic Q400 is a bear to fly and a beast to land, esp. with moderate crosswinds. (I have it for a few years now, and my learning curve on it is still in a holding pattern).  Certainly not for a newbie. 

Jet liners are easier to fly and to land - however, a fair amount of time should be spent learning the FMC, if you wish to become a serious simmer...  

[blackbird7 3]

Wow, a lot of great advice. Thanks for the great recommendations as this will really help me narrow down what might be best for my first leap into airliners. This has me thinking that I should maybe skip the Q400 and come back to it at a later time and investigate some of the Boeing and Airbus options. I have a feeling it will be something along the lines of a 737. I don't mind spending money on a PMDG add-on, but do want to make sure I'm making a good informed decision before purchasing. Starting out, short to medium range airliners are preferable. 😀

18 hours ago, mpw8679 said:

What are your system specs?  This will make a big difference with your decision.

My system specs are an i7-7700k (not OC'd), a GTX 1080Ti, and 32GB of memory. I'm guessing that this can handle most offerings, but I really have no idea. FWIW, I seem to be able to fly the A2A and RealAir fleet without a problem. I would like to avoid a slideshow though.

Edited February 6, 2019 by blackbird7

[Mace 1,902]

3 hours ago, SunDevil56 said:

Like what exactly...?? 

I've been using the CLS DC-10 quite successfully in P3D v4.4, and i've not noted any specific problems thus far, and no modifications have been needed on my system, but if you have specific areas of functionality that don't work correctly,  i'll be happy to test those out on my setup and report back...

It comes with the DDawson 32-bit sound gauge.  Using this in v4 is a no-go as the gauge will not work in the 64-bit environment.  Thus no internal sounds.  Yes, you can fly it without the internal sounds, but that's no fun.  To fix, one has to download his 64-bit gaugepack, then modify the .ini file that comes with it to point to the proper folder for the sounds, then add the proper entry in the panel.cfg.   An amateur will not know how to do that without some knowledge of the Container SDK, or some assistance/ knowledge of the P3D folder structure.

If you want further info on what's missing and what can be added, you can check out the F-Lite subforum over at JustFlight.  In there you will find a bunch of posts on "DC-10 Mods" and similar.  There is a lot of info in there about adding things like wx radar, and the ISG FMC for VNAV and LNAV functionality too.  It's pretty neat once you get it all set up.

[regis9 4,004]

1 hour ago, blackbird7 said:

My system specs are an i7-7700k (not OC'd), a GTX 1080Ti, and 32GB of memory. I'm guessing that this can handle most offerings, but I really have no idea. FWIW, I seem to be able to fly the A2A and RealAir fleet without a problem. I would like to avoid a slideshow though.

I have similar specs, my 7700k is OC to 4.8ghz and I only have a GTX1070, i have no,problems running any of the addons mentioned here.

[regis9 4,004]

8 hours ago, Nyxx said:

I think the PMDG 777 is the most automated aircraft myself.

Out of curiosity, what differences do you think would put the 777 ahead of the A320 in terms of automation?  I went through it in my head and came away thinking they’re about the same when I think about manual input required for a successful flight...quite possible I’m forgetting something though in my mental checklists.

[SunDevil56 183]

17 minutes ago, Mace said:

It comes with the DDawson 32-bit sound gauge. 

 

I ditched that and installed the Rob Barendregt 64 bit gauge, but yeah, you are right, not beginner stuff.

Edited February 6, 2019 by SunDevil56

[PurdueKev 159]

2 hours ago, blackbird7 said:

Wow, a lot of great advice. Thanks for the great recommendations as this will really help me narrow down what might be best for my first leap into airliners. This has me thinking that I should maybe skip the Q400 and come back to it at a later time and investigate some of the Boeing and Airbus options. I have a feeling it will be something along the lines of a 737. I don't mind spending money on a PMDG add-on, but do want to make sure I'm making a good informed decision before purchasing. Starting out, short to medium range airliners are preferable. 😀

My system specs are an i7-7700k (not OC'd), a GTX 1080Ti, and 32GB of memory. I'm guessing that this can handle most offerings, but I really have no idea. FWIW, I seem to be able to fly the A2A and RealAir fleet without a problem. I would like to avoid a slideshow though.

Hi Blackbird:

I have gone through a very similar transition, though perhaps not through the same route!  I purchased both the PMDG 737 and 777 packages as well as the Majestic Q400 some time ago, but never found the time to fire them up for more than just a quick "kicking the tires" flight.  I have been flying the A2A and RealAir GA aircraft pretty much exclusively for a long time, and didn't think I had the time to properly dive in to the airliners. So they all just sat there, uninstalled, through the first three P3D v4 versions.  Also, I was a bit skeptical that I would take to the airliners - I had heard the stories of people turning down their graphics to very austere settings to eke out performance while spending all their time heads-down in the cockpit.  I had become a bit of a "GA-snob," I am embarrassed to say!

About 3 weeks ago I re-installed all three of those airliners in P3D v4.4, mainly because I didn't want that much $$$ in software sitting on my hard drive not being used...

Well, now I understand what all the fuss was about! Basically every flight over the last few weeks has been in the airliners - my GA aircraft have been stuck in the hanger LOL.  I have found a lot of fascination, challenge and enjoyment in planning and executing a flight.  I even picked up the FS2Crew packages to go with each and I really like the voice control and working through flows and checklists.  I will go back to my beloved Turbine Duke and Lancair and the wonderful v-tail Bonanza eventually, but right now my interest has really been piqued in learning the airliner systems and exploring as many different airports as possible.

As for what to pick, I will add my endorsement of the PMDG 737 for a first foray, as that is what I have been flying the most in my first few weeks with the airliners.  The FMC is really intuitive once you figure out the logic, as is the autopilot, and the PMDG presentation is really refined - everything just works.  The NGX is perfect for 1 to 1-1/2 hour flights, which for me are nice session lengths where you have a lot to do but don't just sit there in cruise passing the time.  I use SimBrief for flight planning and I find as much fascination in the planning phase as I do in actually flying (that surprised me).  And if you are really into it, the FS2Crew integration with the NGX is really well-done - better implemented than the one for the Dash-8 in my opinion.  There is enough to do and learn without just letting the plane "fly itself" - in fact learning how to make all of the automation work for you and stay ahead of the aircraft is really fun.  And performance turns out to be surprisingly good on my system - not really any worse than my A2A Cessnas.  I now even have an excuse to fly into all of the Flightbeam/FSDreamteam airports that I had installed but were overkill for GA flying.

I do like the Dash 8 (amazed at how Majestic has built something so deep in terms of systems that also performs so well in terms of frame rates) and I have completed a handful of flights with it, but it definitely is a handful (you are managing a lot of things at once since there is no autothrottle) and has some systems unique to a sophisticated modern turboprop.  I give the nod to the 737 as a first try because of the excellent tutorial flights that PMDG has provided and the wealth of information out there to help you learn.

I now understand why so many people are really into the airliners!  I am hooked...

Edited February 7, 2019 by PurdueKev

[mpw8679 428]

3 hours ago, blackbird7 said:

Wow, a lot of great advice. Thanks for the great recommendations as this will really help me narrow down what might be best for my first leap into airliners. This has me thinking that I should maybe skip the Q400 and come back to it at a later time and investigate some of the Boeing and Airbus options. I have a feeling it will be something along the lines of a 737. I don't mind spending money on a PMDG add-on, but do want to make sure I'm making a good informed decision before purchasing. Starting out, short to medium range airliners are preferable. 😀

My system specs are an i7-7700k (not OC'd), a GTX 1080Ti, and 32GB of memory. I'm guessing that this can handle most offerings, but I really have no idea. FWIW, I seem to be able to fly the A2A and RealAir fleet without a problem. I would like to avoid a slideshow though.

Ya those specs are good for most anything.  FYI the FSlabs A32X’s are a pretty big hit on FPS.  Worse then most.

[winged532 7]

As a dedicated simmer I have all the mentioned aircraft listed above.  The one I would highly recommend for someone just getting into Airliner flying is the Qualitywings Avro/RJ aircraft.  At 20$ it is a bargain.  It is quite immersive but not like the FSLabs, Q400, or even the Aerosoft A320's and PMDG 737's.  It is a regional aircraft so you can fly into many of the smaller airports in Europe.  When I just have enough time to fly a 2 hour flight start to finish, I always use the Avro.  It is especially nice if you want to fly on Vatsim or IVAO because you can be up and running quickly without all the preflight cockpit setup needed in the others. Yes, there are no "failure" modes, but does a newbie really need them? 

Just my 2 cents...

PS terrific on Frame rates

Edited February 7, 2019 by winged532

[Chock 17,769]

Beyond the simple recommendation for this or that airliner, one thing you might want to give some consideration to is: What exactly is it that appeals to you in getting into airliners?

I think it's safe to assume that if you've had A2A and RealAir stuff, you probably appreciate realism in terms of your choice for how a particular aeroplane is simulated, but beyond simply choosing one of the high end developer's add-ons, it would be worth thinking about what it is you enjoy. This could be a lot of things, from the challenge of learning new systems and how they are operated, to simply liking the notion of flying a bigger aeroplane. If you can determine this, it will probably help you choose something to suit.

Of course we have to also be aware that flying an airliner as opposed to flying a GA aeroplane differs in one major fundamental aspect too, the difference being comparable to going out for a drive in your car simply for the fun of driving it, to driving a bus or truck professionally. You can drive your car where you like, when you like and in whatever way you like too, but when you drive a bus with fare-paying passengers, you're being told where to drive it, when to drive it, and often, how to drive it in terms of what you can and cannot do. Putting it in these terms might make it sound a bit like it won't be an enjoyable experience to be limited in such a way when operating an airliner (or a truck or a bus for that matter), however nothing could be further from the truth, the enjoyment derives from doing a job well to a demanding criteria and being regarded as a professional in how you go about things.

With all that in mind. It's also worth considering one of the fundamental differences in ethos between some different types of airliners, and this is a difference which is no better exemplified than in the difference between a Boeing and an Airbus.

Whilst there are of course similarities between the two manufacturer's products, it is perhaps fair to say that a typical Airbus is more focused on 'operation', whereas a typical Boeing is more focused on 'piloting'. That is not to say that you do not have to do both these things in both types, but it is to different degrees, at different stages in the proceedings.

Essentially, the operational ethos with an Airbus, is that the pilots provide the aeroplane's computer systems with information, then its automatic systems interpret this information it has been provided with and the systems fly the aeroplane accordingly when the autopilot is engaged. Conversely, the typical Boeing ethos is that the pilots are provided with information from the aeroplane's systems, and they then interpret this information and choose what to do with it in regards to operating the automatic flight controls. For all the difference, both ways of working an airliner are just fine, but it does go some way toward explaining why a Boeing typically has a pair of traditional-looking yokes in front of the pilots, whereas a typical Airbus (not all of them) has a pair of sidestick controllers and two slide-out tables where you can put a laptop. Thus if you're of the inclination to want to be driving the thing a bit more, you might prefer a Boeing, whereas if it is in depth fly by wire systems and very sophisticated computer controlled flight envelope management and such which appeals to you, then an Airbus will be 'right up your straße' so to speak.

Beyond this. There is also the technical aspects of operating an airliner to consider: route planning,  scheduling, fuel and payload management, crew resource management and so on. All of these aspects of operating an airliner are things that appeal to some, and to others not so much. The more you can determine about what out of all the above appeals to you personally, the more you are likely to enjoy things, by being able to select an airliner where those are its strong points in terms of how it is operated.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by Chock

[madhouse1616 18]

Wonder if a thread like this OR this one should be a sticky? These questions come up quite often … Recommended GA aircraft (vfr, mid-range, biz) / Commercial-Airlines (learner, mid-range, complex) / Vintage / Other … just a thought

[Nyxx 6,993]

10 hours ago, regis9 said:

Out of curiosity, what differences do you think would put the 777 ahead of the A320 in terms of automation?  I went through it in my head and came away thinking they’re about the same when I think about manual input required for a successful flight...quite possible I’m forgetting something though in my mental checklists.

Hi Dave,

They are about the same Dave I agree, I think it’s more the amount of MCDU inputs I do,  I like to enter all climb, cruise and decent winds. Also, I like doing Fix pages in the Bus you have one page per ring , I like the arrival airport to have a 5-mile ring and 10-mile ring that’s a page each, so I use s7 because I also enter a fix page for bird strikes/engine failures on takeoff.

In the Boeing, it’s a /5 and /10 on the same fix page. Like you know the wind uplink in the 777 makes wind entering a simple few buttons to load all winds.

So it’s just small things really but after the next FSL update all that will change. It well might after the next update be the most automated aircraft with wind, take off Perf uplinks etc.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Nyxx

[eslader 1,779]

17 hours ago, PurdueKev said:

I have found a lot of fascination, challenge and enjoyment in planning and executing a flight. 

This right here. There's a Flight Chops video where Steve flies in Osama's Phenom 300 that shows a lot of the planning that went into the flight. At the end, Osama remarks that what he really loves about flying is the meticulous planning that comes before, and then watching the plan unfold during the flight. That's one thing I really like about running the big jets - when everything goes right because I got the prep-work done right.