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Orbx TrueEarth Great Britain South Released for Prepar3D v4

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I certainly will not be running TrueEarth GB South at Sparse scenery complexity and autogen density levels. I did not purchase a dense VFR scenery package to remove 75% of the benefits. I will reserve judgment about performance until I have seen it in action on my own PC, and I will report back here with the results.

Edited by Christopher Low
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1 hour ago, tonywob said:

...but if the other two sims (AF2 and X-Plane) can handle these types of scenery, then perhaps people should be questioning LM instead of pointing the blame completely at ORBX (who are well aware of the problems being reported)

 

This is the logical conclusion if you compare the different sims. I agree.

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13 minutes ago, Cargostorm said:

This is the logical conclusion if you compare the different sims. I agree.

Another conclusion that one could reach is that the business model of trying to port all ORBX scenery to multiple sims may be overly ambitious. Forgetting about AFS2 for a moment since it is not even close to being a complete flightsim, P3d4 and XP11 both have things that they do well and things that they don't. That's why most 3rd party developers create add-ons that match each sims' capabilities.

On the other hand, it's quite possible that ORBX has inside information regarding both sims and is just planning ahead for when the sims' capabilities will match their products' demands.

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6 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

On the other hand, it's quite possible that ORBX has inside information regarding both sims and is just planning ahead for when the sims' capabilities will match their products' demands.

It could be that in P3DV5 ORBX TE (or other photo scenery) will work better. For me, I have decided to buy ORBX TE for Xplane because the performance per visual in XP at moderate settings is currently better for THIS particular scenery than in P3D.

Edited by Cargostorm

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There are several issues all working together. But 2 key ones for me are:

  1. Its a pretty bad port, they didn't create graduated scenery complexities so its either SPARSE (looks awful) OR EXTREMELY DENSE (stutters / cant use shadows). As I stated previously Normal = Very Dense = Extremely Dense.
     
  2. Yes P3D still has an antiquated autogen / scenery / texture loading algorithm.
    the engine is clearly hard to fix (it is certainly a lot better) while remaining backward compatible. Its not clever about what its loading or rendering, what being flushed or kept during draw calls.
    Why is it drawing autogen behind the plane trying but never catching up, ignoring the user Viewport? 
    Why does it stutter, why not drop autogen/scenery/texture drawcalls in favour of smoothness?
    Why not dyanmically cull scenery to achieve desired framerate?
    Why not fade in autogen.. etc 
     

I think P3D engine issues are unlikely to be fixed in 4.5 but perhaps a deeper rewrite of the scenery engine is on the card for v5.

So what we have is for several years on the best hardware money can buy you cannot run default settings with NORMAL Scenery density near London on TE SE.

Whatever about the engine that's not acceptable, it simply isn't aligned to the kind of settings and scenery density that users are capable of running, requiring users to have 2 sets of prepar3d.cfg and making flying in and out of the South East a poor experience, with no weather! In England, no weather!

I can't wait to see the reviews but I think ORBX will be forced to release a service pack fairly quickly, either that or the product will fail.

 

EDIT: They are releasing a patch next week https://orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/168114-tegb-south-p3dv44-settings-for-smooth-performance-at-4k/

Edited by DellyPilot
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5 minutes ago, DellyPilot said:

I think P3D engine issues are unlikely to be fixed in 4.5 but perhaps a deeper rewrite of the scenery engine is on the card for v5.

Problem with any major rewrite is that it will break backwards compatibility. People already have a lot invested in the v4 platform when it moved to 64-bit that I'm sure quite a few will be reluctant to go through the upgrade costs again. IMO, the biggest strength of P3D is the addon ecosystem, a majority of which is legacy stuff carried over from FSX. If they lose that ecosystem, it won't do the platform any good. 

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I see that John Venema sets the Scenery Complexity to Dense for flights around London. What does this setting not display in TrueEarth GB South when compared to Extremely Dense?

Edited by Christopher Low

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24 minutes ago, DellyPilot said:

I think P3D engine issues are unlikely to be fixed in 4.5 but perhaps a deeper rewrite of the scenery engine is on the card for v5.

Aside the compatibility issue, which is a serious one as it has been on the base of Prepar3d, my impression from the few beans spilled at the FlighSimExpo in the last year, they would intend to just rewrite the display engine, presumably making it DX12 compatible. What is in urgent need for a rewrite would be the terrain rendering engine covering most of the points you name under 2). Not sure they are going to tackle this, but I don't recall them mentioning it.

Kind regards, Michael

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1 hour ago, tonywob said:

Problem with any major rewrite is that it will break backwards compatibility. People already have a lot invested in the v4 platform when it moved to 64-bit that I'm sure quite a few will be reluctant to go through the upgrade costs again. IMO, the biggest strength of P3D is the addon ecosystem, a majority of which is legacy stuff carried over from FSX. If they lose that ecosystem, it won't do the platform any good. 

In a poll a while back, many folks using P3D were good with a break in backward comparability if it meant a significant change in performance or capabilities. And a break in backward compatibility doesn't need to be all or nothing (as we've seen with the shift to 64 bit).

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People are using the term compatibility without explaining it in more detail. The first type of compatibility involves preserving legacy file formats such as in the case of P3d4: BGL, MDL, AIR, etc. The second type is preserving legacy entries in the sim's SDK/libraries.

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37 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

People are using the term compatibility without explaining it in more detail. The first type of compatibility involves preserving legacy file formats such as in the case of P3d4: BGL, MDL, AIR, etc. The second type is preserving legacy entries in the sim's SDK/libraries.

All good points but yea this is true, a lot of the draw part of the rendering engine doesn't engage with 3rd party products so they can keep the formats but rebuild the engine and even just the shaders (as Tomatoshade does).

A totally new engine however could mean needing to extend some of those formats to capture extra DX12 information. My worry is that LM aren't really too bothered with this because the main commercial audience isn't looking for this kind of fidelity.

Incidentally, using John's settings but locking down to 20FPS, removing all NVidia inspector settings, removing Tomatoshade shaders, traffic and weather + limiting visibility to 20miles I can now fly from EGLC to EGKK in a Cessna with limited stuttering.

I might purchase that SimStarter product being mentioned so I can easily run this as a second config.

Edited by DellyPilot

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Give Orbx there do, Just use Fair weather and a trike and you will be fine ! got to love the A2A trike. O...wait! when am in London you see GA'a flying in and around/ in & out of heathrow all the time ^^.

Complex GA is about the max aircraft to even think about using but with  visibility set to 30 miles, no thanks.

 

 

Edited by Nyxx

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Reducing the visibility distance improves framerates? I assume this is because the simulator does not render terrain and/or objects beyond the "haze"?

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4 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

Reducing the visibility distance improves framerates? I assume this is because the simulator does not render terrain and/or objects beyond the "haze"?

 "visibility set to 30 miles" is really low.

Do be fair you could see it was never going to work with a PMDG/FSL into EGLL. DL On!

Edited by Nyxx

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Mine is currently set to 50 miles, but I have used 30 miles (and even 20 miles) in the past. It does not matter quite so much when you fly "low and slow" like me :smile:

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9 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

Mine is currently set to 50 miles, but I have used 30 miles (and even 20 miles) in the past. It does not matter quite so much when you fly "low and slow" like me :smile:

Still waiting to hear your finding when you do run it.

It takes 2 mins when its loading from a Samsung 2TB 970 EVO M.2 SSD Thats 3500 MB per second (£460), I hope your not on an old hard drive at 220mb per second. 

Edited by Nyxx

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It will probably be Wednesday or Thursday when I test it.....and it will probably be "in at the deep end" (London and SimWings Heathrow)! :ohmy:

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XP11 with photo-scenery and P3D with landclass, that is the way forward for me. 

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19 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

It will probably be Wednesday or Thursday when I test it.....and it will probably be "in at the deep end" (London and SimWings Heathrow)! :ohmy:

Your poor GPU - get a fire extinguisher ready for it then! 😜
 

40 minutes ago, DellyPilot said:

Incidentally, using John's settings but locking down to 20FPS, removing all NVidia inspector settings, removing Tomatoshade shaders, traffic and weather + limiting visibility to 20miles I can now fly from EGLC to EGKK in a Cessna with limited stuttering.

On your setup, you really shouldn't need to be that drastic with your settings.
Hopefully the proposed update will give us an ability to reduce the number of objects appearing in a more measured and controllable way, rather than having to swing a large axe.

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1 hour ago, DellyPilot said:

locking down to 20FPS, removing all NVidia inspector settings, removing Tomatoshade shaders, traffic and weather + limiting visibility to 20miles I can now fly from EGLC to EGKK in a Cessna with limited stuttering.

Sounds fantastic! 😞

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8 minutes ago, Rockliffe said:

Sounds fantastic! 😞

I know it sounds crazy but you made me laugh very hard..

Regards 

Simbol 

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19 minutes ago, Rockliffe said:

Sounds fantastic! 😞

Why not high settings icw a slow flying chopper at 50 mph 🚁

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2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Reducing the visibility distance improves framerates? I assume this is because the simulator does not render terrain and/or objects beyond the "haze"?

Actually it doesn't seem to make much difference.

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10 minutes ago, DellyPilot said:

Actually it doesn't seem to make much difference.

the idea of reducing visibility is to allow smaller drawing radius from looking bad--you don't see the barren/blurry area beyond the haze.  Don't think it works well in p3d as one goes up in altitude.  

  

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7 minutes ago, kdfw__ said:

the idea of reducing visibility is to allow smaller drawing radius from looking bad--you don't see the barren/blurry area beyond the haze.  Don't think it works well in p3d as one goes up in altitude.  

  

True plus in real life you cant usually see much more than 20 miles. The Tomatoshade fresnel atmosphere shading effects look brilliant. I am seeing much better performance now after another 5hours of tweaking! Solid 30FPS with a lot of eye candy and weather now on.

Why do we do this ridiculous hobby LOL

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