Simulating the 900ER / Derated Takeoffs

[Matt2218 4]

Hello!

I recently made the jump from FSX to P3D and bought the NGX (again, LOL).

Are you guys flying the -900 much? If so, do you have any rules of thumb for setting assumed temperature for derated takeoffs? I have TOPCAT...any way to use that (ie extrapolate downward from 737-800 results or something?).

Also, I recognize that the 900ER has greater capability due to higher weights and more exits, but otherwise the 900 flies like a 900ER (assuming the short field package option is selected), right?

I'm not obsessed with 100% fidelity with the 900 model, just looking to fly it like a 900ER on shorter routes with some degree of realism. Welcome your thoughts...

 

Matt Smith

 

[downscc 1,327]

The reason I have a copy of TOPER for the 737 is the -900.  It only gives ATM and not derate but it is good enough for simulation.

[SierraHotel 974]

I use ToPs, and gives everything I need for a derated takeoff.

https://secure.simmarket.com/tops-takeoff-performance-system-fsx-p3d.phtml

[Matt2218 4]

Thanks gentlemen, I will check these out.

[threexgreen 3,133]

There's also QSimPlanner which I use and it's freeware. Does more than just takeoff performance, too.

Why would the short field package make it more like a 900ER?

[Matt2218 4]

11 minutes ago, threegreen said:

Why would the short field package make it more like a 900ER?

 

From what I read here, the SFP is standard equipment on the -900ER:

 

https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2006-07-31-Boeing-Delivers-First-737-with-Enhanced-Short-Runway-Package-to-GOL

 

[Stearmandriver 2,205]

Nah, the -900ER does not fly like a straight -900.  There's grumbling when you pull paperwork and see you're in an old -900, especially if it's windy ;-).

Therein lies the biggest difference - approach speeds are significantly inflated on the -900 for tail strike protection, so with flaps 30 + wind additive on a gusty day, target speed can be well into the 150s, which puts you close to flap overspeed/blow back. 

The ER fixes this mostly artificially, with a two-position tailskid that extends with the gear, but there are definitely aerodynamic changes too... the straight -900 flies like a truck, the -ER has a much nicer feel. 

[Matt2218 4]

32 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Nah, the -900ER does not fly like a straight -900.  There's grumbling when you pull paperwork and see you're in an old -900, especially if it's windy ;-).

Therein lies the biggest difference - approach speeds are significantly inflated on the -900 for tail strike protection, so with flaps 30 + wind additive on a gusty day, target speed can be well into the 150s, which puts you close to flap overspeed/blow back. 

The ER fixes this mostly artificially, with a two-position tailskid that extends with the gear, but there are definitely aerodynamic changes too... the straight -900 flies like a truck, the -ER has a much nicer feel. 

 

Thanks Andrew, good to know but also kind of disappointing.

After spending $120 to get effectively the same FSX product I already had for this new sim, I wouldn't be offended if PMDG threw in the -900ER or the raindrops etc. as a bennie for loyal customers, even this late in the game.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Matt2218

[Ephedrin 418]

23 minutes ago, Matt2218 said:

 

Thanks Andrew, good to know but also kind of disappointing.

After spending $120 to get effectively the same FSX product I already had for this new sim, I wouldn't be offended if PMDG threw in the -900ER or the raindrops etc. as a bennie for loyal customers, even this late in the game.

Don‘t hold your breath... the NG3 is in development, I personally doubt there will be any updates to the 737NGX of this kind.

[Matt2218 4]

21 minutes ago, Ephedrin said:

Don‘t hold your breath... the NG3 is in development, I personally doubt there will be any updates to the 737NGX of this kind.

 

Indeed...not actively hoping for or expecting anything.

 

[30K 72]

4 hours ago, Matt2218 said:

Are you guys flying the -900 much?

Honestly, the 900 is complete bull**t when it comes to ground handling. Luckily the last airline flying is gone here. This AC is tail tipping just by looking at it, it's so fast on its back, that the caterer cant caters in the fwd galley until you have at least 50 pieces in the 3.

(maybe company procedure). even though its annoying as hell.

[vadriver 247]

4 hours ago, Matt2218 said:

Are you guys flying the -900 much? If so, do you have any rules of thumb for setting assumed temperature for derated takeoffs? I have TOPCAT...any way to use that (ie extrapolate downward from 737-800 results or something?).

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/391764-topcat-configuration-for-pmdg-738ngx/ mjght help .....

[sosuflyer 30]

15 hours ago, SierraHotel said:

I use ToPs, and gives everything I need for a derated takeoff.

https://secure.simmarket.com/tops-takeoff-performance-system-fsx-p3d.phtml

Can't believe I've never heard of that tool before.  Does it work pretty well,  and do the takeoffs feel realistic (flight deck angle, v1 stop distance and such). It's cheap enough I'll get it anyway.  Just never heard of it before 

[threexgreen 3,133]

15 hours ago, 30K said:

caterer cant caters in the fwd galley until you have at least 50 pieces in the 3.

This should surely be the other way around? Can't cater the aft galley unless there's some in 2?

I presume I ought not to show you the Delta tail tipping video then? 🙂

[threexgreen 3,133]

17 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Nah, the -900ER does not fly like a straight -900.  There's grumbling when you pull paperwork and see you're in an old -900, especially if it's windy ;-).

Therein lies the biggest difference - approach speeds are significantly inflated on the -900 for tail strike protection, so with flaps 30 + wind additive on a gusty day, target speed can be well into the 150s, which puts you close to flap overspeed/blow back. 

The ER fixes this mostly artificially, with a two-position tailskid that extends with the gear, but there are definitely aerodynamic changes too... the straight -900 flies like a truck, the -ER has a much nicer feel. 

Do you as an actual pilot like flying the 900ER? I've read some reports of pilots not being so happy with it, mainly because it's so prone to tail strike and makes rotation and flaring 'uncomfortable'.