Atlas Air/Amazon Prime 767 crashed outside Houston

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

Surprised I hadn’t heard this earlier since it happened around 12:45 this afternoon. Unfortunately it looks like the crew of 3 has perished, but is unconfirmed since they have not yet been located.

Eye witnesses said the plane looked to have gone in nose first in a steep dive, however we all know about avaition “eye witnesses” not always being the most reliable source when it comes to this, but the graph from Flightradar24 shows a pretty significant loss in altitude in a short period of time.

[Sticky 267]

very sad.  I wonder if the large storm cell right near their flight path had anything to do with it.  The original poster said this was only 20 minutes before the crash.

[signmanbob 592]

My wife mentioned this to me today and when she said that it was a 767, I said I wonder if it was one of the new Amazon Prime units.

[thibodba57 462]

Yes it was an Amazon aircraft.  But please let's try not to speculate and Monday morning quarterback. There are a few of us Atlas people that roam the threads.

Not saying you guys were. But I know how these boards get rapidly.

Edited February 23, 2019 by thibodba57

[vc10man 732]

Sad, sad news before end of my day here. R,I.P, God Bless.

[LRBS 944]

Folks, please, as Brian said not to speculate anything. Let's pray for my dear colleagues and their families.

Another sad day in aviation..................

[John_Cillis 2,406]

23 hours ago, killthespam said:

Folks, please, as Brian said not to speculate anything. Let's pray for my dear colleagues and their families.

Another sad day in aviation..................

Agreed, the 767 however has a fairly good track record in safe flight, almost on par with the L1011.  While air crashes are sad they also help us learn how to make better aircraft, better aircraft systems, and better checks and balances between the crew, ATC if necessary, and the aircraft.  Weather is always a challenge. 

On my last Trike flight, when I was in Albuquerque NM, me and the CFI onboard who was giving me a lesson took off in clear air.  Out of nowhere, as is common in the desert summer as humidity travels into our deserts from the Caribbean or Gulf of California, a severe squall developed to our east and winds aloft went from zero to over 20 knots.  We made a beeline for Double Eagle Airport (home of the Eclipse Jet) declaring an emergency, though no traffic was in the vicinity other than a companion of ours, a single place ultralight pilot who was demoing his trike. 

The CFI could not control the trike alone, I had to help him with the control bar due to the force of the wind and difficulty he had in controlling the trike.  He kept asking me if I was OK and I would reply "I am fine, are you?"  He was not OK and a bit panicked, so I just kept quiet, let him concentrate, and helped with the control bar to help him land.  We were both shaken but otherwise OK, but very worried about our friend and his single place trike, we tried to warn him on UNICOM but he did not respond. 

So we correctly assumed that he just put down somewhere in the desert and waited for the squall to pass, which it did.  Accidents can come out of nowhere, that is why they are caused accidents.  Speculation is OK but assumptions are not, they should be left to the pro investigators on the ground.

John

[ACR 10]

I'm not really sure what you're trike story had to do with this, John.  Weather happens.  I will agree however that we should let the investigators do their work.

[Will273 23]

Interesting story John...had someone tell me recently about something along those lines. I think he said it was at night taking off from Toronto or Cleveland in a Piper...1,500 ft. or so...some winds came out of nowhere and flip him upside down but he recovered. ATC was aware of what happened and helped calm him down he told me. Anyway like you said...it comes out of nowhere and it comes fast.

[Mace 1,902]

Interesting that I've heard nothing new about this incident, which pre-dates the Ethiopean crash.

Last I heard, they had a good portion of the wreckage in a warehouse and were examining it, and had the FDR, and CVR.

To me, the Amazon Prime Air crash is far more anomalous than Ethiopean/LionAir, where in those cases we now have a fair idea of what went wrong.  With Prime Air -- still nothing -- last time I checked.  Just that the CVR recording revealed a "loss of control 18 seconds prior to the end of recording" -- that's not very illuminating.

[KevinAu 441]

The captain accidentally hit the toga button on the mcp while they were level at 6000 on the arrival. The plane started a go around, advancing thrust and pitching up. Fo grabbed the yoke and pushed down as the plane climbed above their assigned altitude. The captain grabbed his yoke and pulled up as the plane descended through their assigned altitude. The yokes disconnected from each other. Fo was pushing and Ca was pulling. Twisting forces must have broke something in the tail. Plane was caught on camera in a 45 degree wings level dive. The jumpseater was pinned to the ceiling throughout.

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

22 minutes ago, KevinAu said:

The captain accidentally hit the toga button on the mcp while they were level at 6000 on the arrival. The plane started a go around, advancing thrust and pitching up. Fo grabbed the yoke and pushed down as the plane climbed above their assigned altitude. The captain grabbed his yoke and pulled up as the plane descended through their assigned altitude. The yokes disconnected from each other. Fo was pushing and Ca was pulling. Twisting forces must have broke something in the tail. Plane was caught on camera in a 45 degree wings level dive. The jumpseater was pinned to the ceiling throughout.

Was that the final cause determined by the NTSB? I haven’t been able to find a complete report posted yet.

[voske 34]

There are a lot of rumors about the cause, for example on pprune, but no NTSB report yet.

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

14 hours ago, voske said:

There are a lot of rumors about the cause, for example on pprune, but no NTSB report yet.

Thanks, I was just wondering if what Kevin posted was fact, opinion or rumor. 

[thibodba57 462]

The docket has been released.  Here’s a link to the NTSB announcement.  In the announcement is the link to the public Docket.  Lots to read, a lot of painful things.  The NTSB will release their final findings probably in the next 6 months.  Keep in mind the NTSBs job is not to assign blame but to point to the probable cause of the accident.  So there won’t be any finger pointing.  It’s sad to say most of the rumors that were found online were true.  The docket provides a pretty clear picture as to what happened in my opinion. The hardest thing to put a finger on is what set the events into motion. Not during the flight but months prior if not years.  Whether the NTSB goes into that is anyone’s guess.  I believe they should, but it would be an entire shakeup of the way hiring is done at airlines now a days and what records are kept as to an individual’s training background.

Truly a sad day.

 

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/NR20191219.aspx

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremybogaisky/2019/12/19/pilot-of-doomed-amazon-air-flight-had-poor-training-record-seemed-confused-before-crash-ntsb-report-suggests/?fbclid=IwAR0Yba2WxXxjvkfjg2ZuXj2-TEG9j3Ds1vGnfIGISS-ua_ta4Ao5mEToQYo#6305225d79cc