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forshaw

Best all round ATC for FSX - Pro- ATC/ X?

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On 2/26/2019 at 3:45 PM, forshaw said:

If the tool relies on stats of the aircraft to determine Rate Of Decent, Climb Rate, the best approach to assign for landing etc..etc;  then it wouldn't do a good job of auto generating a flight plan which is what i use all the time.

As far as I know, rate of climb and descent have no effect on the waypoints of a flight plan but are instead used by ATC to calculate TOD and other climb/descend instructions. ProATC-X lets you create aircraft profiles that specify climb rate, descent rate for three different altitude ranges, runway take off and landing lengths, and maximum cross and tail wind components. If you enter accurate data, you should not have problems with runway selection or descent instructions. You also have the option of deciding when to initiate your descent instead of letting ATC decide for you. You can also specify if certain runways at any airport should not be used for take off and or landing. And the way ProATC-X handles approach vectors (when needed) has improved greatly since I first got the program. 

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On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 2:31 AM, Sidney Schwartz said:

As far as I know, rate of climb and descent have no effect on the waypoints of a flight plan but are instead used by ATC to calculate TOD and other climb/descend instructions. ProATC-X lets you create aircraft profiles that specify climb rate, descent rate for three different altitude ranges, runway take off and landing lengths, and maximum cross and tail wind components. If you enter accurate data, you should not have problems with runway selection or descent instructions. You also have the option of deciding when to initiate your descent instead of letting ATC decide for you. You can also specify if certain runways at any airport should not be used for take off and or landing. And the way ProATC-X handles approach vectors (when needed) has improved greatly since I first got the program. 

Thanks Sidney. Yes I am going ahead and purchasing the tool.

Kindest Regards.

Forshaw.

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Hello Folks;

So I have had the PRO ATC x for 3 months now and I must say that I expected a little more.

It is great product but hasn't had any updates since March 2018 I think (the manual is also since 2015) so there are quite a of things that aren't working well that need addressing. The developer has been in a bad accident late last year and still recovering hence the reason why it's lagging behind on updates. Everyone has been wishing him a speedy and successfully recovery which is most important.

Here are a few reasons I am looking to maybe try another ATC product (PF3 maybe).

  1. The assignment of Dep and landing Runways are sometimes bad. This is just one example
    1. I.E. at KORD with PMDG 747; PRO ATC X assigned me runway 9R (7,xxx Feet) for takeoff when 10L (13,000) Feet & 10C (10,000) were both  active and available for Dep. Also the aircraft profile is set to 10,000 ft for takeoff. The answer I got was " Well PRO ATC assigns the first runways available for the wind direction" When I challenged them stating a numbers of reasons why it's incorrect I never get a response.
  2. Vectors following SIDS are sometimes off
    1. A few times  ATC seems to have gotten lost and sent me East/West/South/North (back and forth) to get me back to the original Transactions point for the STAR for landing. The explanation was "at 310 Kts speed it's too fast to  pick up waypoints that are close together" which is ridiculous. This happened a few times. And by the way all of my flight planes are generated by PRO ATC X so their application is in total control of everything so there is no ambiguity.

My point is they never seem to acknowledge when there is truly an issue on their end and it needs to be addressed, there is always a weird explanation for issues that are truly bugs.

Also I noticed a significant drop in FPS, mine goes from about 26-30 (steady) FPS (with add-on airport, ASNext, PMDG 747) to about 10-15 (jerky) with PRO ATC X. Not sure if anyone else has this same issue as i do.

 

Overall I really like the product but due to the lack of updates in a long time, which I assume will address some to these issues, and also the fact that the online manual/help is way out of date i am looking to try something else maybe PF3.

Just wanted to share my feedback of the product. Again others may not have experienced the same issues as I did which is fine.

Thanks.

Kindest Regards.

Forshaw.

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On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 5:21 AM, forshaw said:

Hello Folks;

So, I am trying to determine what is the best all round ATC for FSX

The one that comes with FSX. :biggrin:

The default ATC is actually quite functional, and does quite a good job providing you with vectors for an ILS-approach. If default ATC gets confused, for example in mountaineous territory, just fly the Approach yourself.

The thing is that a lot of simmers don't bother exploring the options beyond hitting the "1" key. :rolleyes:

I've also been toying with the idea of buying an ATC-addon, but I found them all lacking in one way or another. And do I really want to spend another $40-$60 on yet another piece of Software I'll spend hours tinkering with?

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Thanks for the update on the Pro-ATC/X developer, forshaw.  I noticed recently it had not been updated but the health and well-being of the developer is most important.

Ricardo41, I am not going to speak for other third-party ATC users, but my biggest issue with the default ATC is that in long flights I get ping ponged back and forth between different ATC frequencies for the same ATC region.  If I want a simple ATC for short flights (especially when I fly in VR using FlyInsideFSX), the default ATC does the job with minimal fuss.  For longer flights I for one use PF3.  What I like about it is that I can use RemoteText to receive ATC instructions over a home network, so I can receive ATC instructions on my Windows 10 tablet if I need to be in another room or cook a meal during a long flight.  I don't have to be close enough to be able to view/hear my computer all the time during routine autopilot cruising.

All the ATC add-ons require a learning curve that comes with new software.  Like you said Ricardo41, those who do not want to invest the time and money can just stick with default ATC.


Sim: Prepar3D 5.2 (main) and Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020), CH Eclipse Yoke, Thrustmaster Airbus TCA Side Stick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Pedals, Saitek Cessna trim wheel, TrackIR 5, SPAD.neXt running 3 Saitek Logitech panels, ButtKicker Gamer 2, Razer Naga Chroma gaming mouse

System: Intel i5-10600K CPU @ 4.10 GHz, Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, 64GB DDR4 RAM @ 4200 MHz, ASRock Z490M Pro4, 2TB Intel NVMe SSD 660p, 3 monitors

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1 hour ago, BF Bullpup said:

  I don't have to be close enough to be able to view/hear my computer all the time during routine autopilot cruising.

There's an easy fix for that (at least in FS9, I'm assuming it works the same way in FSX:

Acknowledge the hand off, but don't contact the next Center. Come back to the PC at TOD or whenever.

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14 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

There's an easy fix for that (at least in FS9, I'm assuming it works the same way in FSX:

Acknowledge the hand off, but don't contact the next Center. Come back to the PC at TOD or whenever.

That isn't a fix.  That is a workaround.  I prefer an ATC that works properly without nagging me to tune to unneeded frequencies.  🙂


Sim: Prepar3D 5.2 (main) and Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020), CH Eclipse Yoke, Thrustmaster Airbus TCA Side Stick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Pedals, Saitek Cessna trim wheel, TrackIR 5, SPAD.neXt running 3 Saitek Logitech panels, ButtKicker Gamer 2, Razer Naga Chroma gaming mouse

System: Intel i5-10600K CPU @ 4.10 GHz, Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, 64GB DDR4 RAM @ 4200 MHz, ASRock Z490M Pro4, 2TB Intel NVMe SSD 660p, 3 monitors

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8 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

The one that comes with FSX. :biggrin:

The default ATC is actually quite functional, and does quite a good job providing you with vectors for an ILS-approach. If default ATC gets confused, for example in mountaineous territory, just fly the Approach yourself.

The thing is that a lot of simmers don't bother exploring the options beyond hitting the "1" key. :rolleyes:

I've also been toying with the idea of buying an ATC-addon, but I found them all lacking in one way or another. And do I really want to spend another $40-$60 on yet another piece of Software I'll spend hours tinkering with?

Hi Ricardo41;

You are absolutely correct. Actually I have been using FSX ATC ever since it came out, I only started using an add-on ATC (Pro ATC X) 3 months ago. So yes I am a veteran at the default ATC I do know to work around it's shortcomings. i wanted a little more realistic experience with SIDs and STARS etc.etc hence the reason why I wanted to try something new.

In your response to BF Bullpup yes I do the same "Acknowledge the hand off, but don't contact the next Center. Come back to the PC at TOD or whenever" and it works perfectly for me.

The jury is still out so I am willing to try something else and then make my final decision.

Best Regards.

Forshaw.

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5 hours ago, BF Bullpup said:

Thanks for the update on the Pro-ATC/X developer, forshaw.  I noticed recently it had not been updated but the health and well-being of the developer is most important.

Ricardo41, I am not going to speak for other third-party ATC users, but my biggest issue with the default ATC is that in long flights I get ping ponged back and forth between different ATC frequencies for the same ATC region.  If I want a simple ATC for short flights (especially when I fly in VR using FlyInsideFSX), the default ATC does the job with minimal fuss.  For longer flights I for one use PF3.  What I like about it is that I can use RemoteText to receive ATC instructions over a home network, so I can receive ATC instructions on my Windows 10 tablet if I need to be in another room or cook a meal during a long flight.  I don't have to be close enough to be able to view/hear my computer all the time during routine autopilot cruising.

All the ATC add-ons require a learning curve that comes with new software.  Like you said Ricardo41, those who do not want to invest the time and money can just stick with default ATC.

You're quite welcome BF Bullpup. The accident had to be really bad for him to be out this long so yes everyone is wishing him well soon They actually came out with a statement saying that they are not dead😂. I guess people were wondering if they were going out of business.

Interesting point you bring up about ATC instructions. PRO ATC X has the co-pilot feature which will turn all frequencies and answer all necessary and "unnecessary" instructions, So there is no need to worry about a remote text. I can go shopping etc. on long haul flight and not worry. If PF3 doesn't have that feature then I wouldn't use it. With FSX as Ricardo41 pointed out i turn to the frequency once I have reached cursing altitude  but don't contact them until i am about ready to descend.

 

Thanks again.

Forshaw.

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18 hours ago, forshaw said:

Interesting point you bring up about ATC instructions. PRO ATC X has the co-pilot feature which will turn all frequencies and answer all necessary and "unnecessary" instructions, So there is no need to worry about a remote text. I can go shopping etc. on long haul flight and not worry.

Good idea.  My problem is that I like to do everything myself.  I even have a Saitek radio panel because I find it fun to tune to new frequencies and push the frequency swap button.  Why lose that to computer copilots?  😛 


Sim: Prepar3D 5.2 (main) and Microsoft Flight Simulator (2020), CH Eclipse Yoke, Thrustmaster Airbus TCA Side Stick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Pedals, Saitek Cessna trim wheel, TrackIR 5, SPAD.neXt running 3 Saitek Logitech panels, ButtKicker Gamer 2, Razer Naga Chroma gaming mouse

System: Intel i5-10600K CPU @ 4.10 GHz, Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, 64GB DDR4 RAM @ 4200 MHz, ASRock Z490M Pro4, 2TB Intel NVMe SSD 660p, 3 monitors

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On 7/6/2019 at 6:23 AM, BF Bullpup said:

Good idea.  My problem is that I like to do everything myself.  I even have a Saitek radio panel because I find it fun to tune to new frequencies and push the frequency swap button.  Why lose that to computer copilots?  😛 

Understood, and i am with you on this. If I had a Saitek radio panel I would definitely be manually swapping my frequency with help from no one.😁

cheers.

Forshaw.

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Hi there

PRO-ATC/X is still the most realistic ATC add-on there is, including TRUE voice communication. 
BTW, a new update is around the corner! 

Cheers,
Morten   


Phillip Seedorff

Setup:
ASUS PRIME Z370-P i9 9900K 16GB-DDR4 nVidia RTX2080 Win10 64 1909 PRO1863 USB earphones Artic7 Steel3 and s/pdif opt.7.1 surround Denon amp P3DV4.5/v5/MSFS  ASP/ASCA ProATC/X UTLive

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WOW, an update 1 1/2 years later; Fantastic. So this March will be 2 years since I had the product and I do like it and have been enjoying it but, it does have its issues. The problem was and still is there hasn't been any updates for a very long time including since I have purchased the product. I know the Dev. person was in a serious accident awhile ago (certainly hopes he is ok by now), and have been hearing updates are coming soon but none thus far.

Unless you have more insight then most of us🙂 I wouldn't hold my breath on the update around the corner. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that this is it for the produce. I must say that the support is still there to address issues and they have been helpful, but it's the updates that are missing.

Kindest Regards.

Forshaw.

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On 2/24/2019 at 3:08 PM, threegreen said:

As for PF3, one thing that annoyed me a bit at the gate was the virtual co-pilot feature. I had set him to confirm ATC instructions as well as check in to the new frequency immediately after. The problem with this setting is that he will go straight from obtaining clearance to requesting start-up and pushback when boarding was still ongoing. This is also an issue when you want to request a different runway: you can't if you have this feature enabled because he will acknowledge the given runway.

The above behaviour is not compulsary and is configurable in the settings. Many grumble about the range of settings but it does allow you to configure things exactly for the way you use FS if you persevere.

PF3 scores points with me for the huge range of accents (and allocation to appropriate airlines) but there is no denying the robotic nature of some of the recordings. It also lacks some modern airline calls.

There is no question that the FS built-in ATC is the most rugged and reliable, even if it doesn't use the most realistic methods. The others can only react with AI traffic "after the event" and I don't think any other than the default will instruct you to climb over mountains!

John

 

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Very helpful info here from the avsim community.   Like Forshaw, I am interested in getting the Pro ATC program and here are my questions and concerns..  I do not yet have an AI add-on program such as UT or UTL.. I have researched it, just never got the program as I have always been more concerned with aircraft and scenery.. Would a program like Pro ATC work well with SIDS and STARS if you also had Ultimate Traffic running?   I am sure there are many members of this community who have both.  How is the performance?  

Thanks,

Jason

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