Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
racer0796

AI Flight Planner

Recommended Posts

So, i have created some flight plans at my local UK Airports with AIFP,  and on the default 1% traffic density setting !       In other words, when I go to the assigned airport at the correct time MINUS Vox with the FSX sliders set to anything 1% or over , sure enough my created traffic flights are always there ready to go ..

However, on the required  setting of 0% on sliders and Voxatc enabled , nothing at all !!        I have tried several flight plans, at different airports and no traffic, just the usual touch and go GA already in the circuit !!!       I use FSX steam edition , and only now the old Traffic 2005 Just Flight program . This does give me scheduled flights , on the ground at the major Uk airports ... including EgTE Exeter Flybe etc .... But am trying to make some real world flights with the Twin otter and islander for Lands End , and Newquay to the Isles of Scilly  ..   Any help with this one please ?     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Dave_YVR said:

0% on your traffic slider shuts down all bgl AI traffic. Crank it up.

VoxATC generates its own AI traffic from your bgl files. The FSX/P3D slider is supposed to be set to 0 (so that the sim-generated traffic doesn't get created and conflict with the traffic generated by VoxATC).

6 hours ago, racer0796 said:

However, on the required  setting of 0% on sliders and Voxatc enabled , nothing at all !!   

I have had a similar experience just this past week. I've also been creating flight plans with AIFP, and discovered that all of a sudden, Vox stopped generating traffic. Although in my case, I know for certain it was working with some plans I created with AIFP. I've been generating aircraft-specific BGLs, one or two a day, and have about 10 now. I'm thinking I must have somehow created one in the past few days that Vox doesn't like and it's breaking everything else.

I'm going to get back to a known-good state from after the first couple when I know things were working, and slowly re-introduce the bgls one at a time to see when it breaks. Once that happens, I may be able to figure out what it is about that file that breaks things.

I'll post any findings in this thread, though I'd also be interested to see any other responses to this that could help ...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, cgrey000 said:

VoxATC generates its own AI traffic from your bgl files. The FSX/P3D slider is supposed to be set to 0 (so that the sim-generated traffic doesn't get created and conflict with the traffic generated by VoxATC).

Ah gotcha, my bad.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the original question was about AIG schedules, one should know that they are treated differently in VOXATC than in the sim. Even though the AIG schedules are all set to an activity level of 1%, VOXATC seems to ignore activity levels. It just takes the entire AIG schedule for a specific airline and uses a percentage of all the flightplans, based on what one chooses for the VOXATC Traffic Density setting. I tend to use a setting of 40 to 50% with a limit of 150 to 200 AI aircraft in FSUIPC. VOXATC also has a setting to control the maximum number of aircraft on the ground at any airport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

VOXATC also has a setting to control the maximum number of aircraft on the ground at any airport.

jay

can you point me to that ...... sounds like a VAsettings.xml input ?

also, I understood the fsuipc limiter does not work with VOX's traffic engine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, vadriver said:

jay

can you point me to that ...... sounds like a VAsettings.xml input ?

also, I understood the fsuipc limiter does not work with VOX's traffic engine.

I'm won't be at my flight sim computer for a while, but the setting is in VASettings.xml and is aptly named.

Why do you think the FSUIPC traffic limiter doesn't work with VOXATC? I've checked it previously and once the number of AI aircraft gets to the limit, FSUIPC starts deleting AI aircraft. I'll look further but the AI aircraft in VOXATC are SimConnect based and there's only a few ways that they are different than those those created by P3d4:

1. VOXATC maintains its own internal departure and destination data for each aircraft. This means that any external traffic utility like either STB or the P3d4 traffic toolbox will not display values for these items.

2. VOXATC does not expose its internal value for aircraft status (for example taxiing, landing etc.). Only a subset of values are available for SimConnect AI aircraft. A consequence of this that the sim will not dock/undock default jetways nor will it automatically provide fuel and baggage services with default vehicles. However SODE jetways automatically service VOXATC aircraft.

3. VOXATC aircraft follow correct traffic patterns, including spacing.

Edited by jabloomf1230
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

   <MaxParkedAircraft Value="120" />
   <MaxParkedHelicopters Value="40" />
   <HelicopterTrafficDensity Value="60" />

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Why do you think the FSUIPC traffic limiter doesn't work with VOXATC?

because it seems I misread the fsuipc.log a week or 2 ago when I was tweaking some lua's.

so thanks jay for the note .. yes one can see the effect in the vox err.log as well ..... so now time for some more tweaking to manage my performance with the "great" combination of vox & fsuipc5.

6 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

<MaxParkedAircraft Value="120" />

& thanks for this note ...... had spotted it but thought there may be another for "taxiing" aircraft.

also you are spot on with your 2 & 3's ..... don't use / need STB or TT so won't comment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/6/2019 at 7:01 PM, jabloomf1230 said:

Even though the AIG schedules are all set to an activity level of 1%, VOXATC seems to ignore activity levels.

Actually, I want to correct this. I'm not sure how VOXATC handles activity levels in schedule files. It looks like it uses them, but I don't understand how it uses them. Maybe someone else can figure out how it works. Now that 7.42 uses the actual flightplans for the AI aircraft (as opposed to previous versions, which took a random snapshot of possible flights at one time during the day) it fills up airports with AI aircraft with the intent of having them depart at some time later in the day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well,   I installed the WOAI Skybus package yesterday , and although I had some success , I also had a lot of frustration unfortunately !!

Firstly ,I found too much of a good thing , in that I was flooded at EGHE Scillies with Norman Islander G-BUBN....Yes, this same registered aircraft  not only appeared on the ground five times , but was also reporting downwind to land ,also ....lol                    And , to add to this ,not an Otter (twin or otherwise ) did I see until late in the session .

 When an example of the larger aircraft did arrive , it proceeded to land rather abruptly, followed by a violent swerve off the runway towards where I was observing , and to my horror crashed straight into the aforementioned GBUBNs, that were just minding their own business .....and then , it had the cheek to disappear ......!!!..............

Okay, so joking aside , I have no idea what was going on , and I musn't forget the endless go arounds , and missed approaches of the Islanders , that never seemed to land once . I quickly realised they were flying touch and goes , and acting more like GA .    If this is an indicator of the programming skill of the world of ai guys, I may have to give that a miss in future .

Anyway, to sum up ,  and if perhaps of some use and interest to others ,I ran my compiler for Traffic 2005 again , along with the vox indexer ,    Before this complete process, no aifp or woai aircraft were showing up with fsx sliders correctly set 0% and vox enabled , even at 100% ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

but I don't understand how it uses them. Maybe someone else can figure out how it works

 

21 hours ago, racer0796 said:

fsx sliders correctly set 0% and vox enabled , even at 100%

Well, I finally had some time to really dig in to this today - I was having the exact same issue. And after about 5-hours, I'm now even more confused.  I actually *did* manage to get traffic working. I thought I had it narrowed down to one 'bad' BGL file.. And then, during further testing, I found that (a) at least part of my issue was airport specific, and (b) having the Vox traffic density set too high also had negative effects. 

I still think there's something funny with one particular BGL, but now I'm not so sure that's all of it. With it, I had no traffic at all. Without it, I got traffic again. But then, in further testing, when I put it back and LOWERED the Vox slider (to around 25% from just over 50%) I STILL had traffic. So, I started a pattern of disabling Vox, changing the slider, and re-enabling. Turned out, if I had the slider lower than 15-ish% or higher than 50% I had no traffic, with or without this one file. When I had it within that range, I would get traffic, but dramatically less with the file than without. 

Then, with all the same files and settings, started up at a different airport and had no traffic...

About then, my brain was fried and I was ready to walk away. And that's when I discovered in the VAsettings.xml file, there's a line that says something like "AIDebug=False".. I wonder what will happen when I set that to True and try again when I'm ready for more punishment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having even one active FS9 format traffic file will prevent all FSX format traffic from appearing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

Having even one active FS9 format traffic file will prevent all FSX format traffic from appearing.

Yes, but intermittently?  If I install *only* the one bgl that I think is somehow causing part of this issue, I still get traffic with it (as long as I have the Vox slider somewhere between 15-50%.) Higher or lower, and there's none.

Either way, I don't think that's what I'm running in to - I created all of these BGLs myself, in P3D format with the latest AIFP.

Hopefully that debug option will give me a clue tomorrow....

Thanks!

Edited by cgrey000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, cgrey000 said:

Either way, I don't think that's what I'm running in to - I created all of these BGLs myself, in P3D format with the latest AIFP.

Maybe you should try starting with only a few AIG flightplans first just to see if they work. I've never had a problem with VOXATC showing either too little or no traffic. It usually shows too much, unless I stay below a setting of 50% for the VOXATC activity level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/7/2019 at 9:17 PM, jabloomf1230 said:

Actually, I want to correct this. I'm not sure how VOXATC handles activity levels in schedule files. It looks like it uses them, but I don't understand how it uses them. Maybe someone else can figure out how it works. Now that 7.42 uses the actual flightplans for the AI aircraft (as opposed to previous versions, which took a random snapshot of possible flights at one time during the day) it fills up airports with AI aircraft with the intent of having them depart at some time later in the day.

I did a bit more testing and poking around on the activity levels. It seems like VOXATC will generate a maximum number of AI Aircraft (with the default settings this number appears to be 250 +/-) . The activity setting in the VOXATC settings appears to be multiplied by the maximum number of AI aircraft (not including helicopters) divided by 100. So by default, at a 50% level in the VOXATC settings, VOXATC will never generate more than 125 aircraft. 

Now for the interesting stuff. I discovered a website via the Wayback Machine, which I now can't find again, that mentioned additional settings in VASettings.xml that don't appear in the default file. I had no idea whether these settings were for VOXATC 6 and were deprecated or they actually did something. Here they are:

      <MaxParkedAircraft Value="120" />
		...
      <MaxEnrouteAircraft Value="xxx" />
      <MaxActiveTerminalAircraft Value="yyy" />
      <TrafficGeneratedAtAllAirports Value="TRUE" />

Considering that the default value for MaxParkedAircraft is included in the file and is equal to 120, the other two settings must add up to somewhere around 130. The settings do appear to work. The last setting causes VOXATC to display aircraft on the ground at airports adjacent to the location of the user aircraft. The default value is FALSE. This is similar to the trick of changing to a nearby airport's tower frequency temporarily to get VOXATC to display traffic at that nearby airport.

Anyway, all these settings potentially could severely impact performance, so I strongly recommend against fiddling around with them too much. Keep in mind that they are maximum numbers. Unless one has a ton of AIG flightplans like I do, one may never get close to the values. I'd also worry about how these settings interact with the settings in the FSUIPC Traffic Limiter. I tested the settings with all the FSUIPC limiter settings at 50% and the maximum number of AI aircraft at 150. YMMV.

Don't blame me if you fiddle with these settings and break your VOXATC installation. Well, you can blame me, at least I won't feel too guilty about it. :wink:

Edited by jabloomf1230

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I've concluded from further testing of these settings is that they are redundant with the FSUIPC AI limiter settings, so I turned off the FSUIPC limiter. For most VOXATC users, a limit of 50 to 100 total AI aircraft in the user's reality bubble should be suitable. As an example, for a maximum of 100 AI aircraft, I would use:

<MaxParkedAircraft Value="50" />
<MaxEnrouteAircraft Value="30" />
<MaxActiveTerminalAircraft Value="20" />
<TrafficGeneratedAtAllAirports Value="TRUE" />

and then set the AI activity level in the VOXATC settings to 100%. What's even more interesting is that  with the last setting, AI aircraft at adjacent airports not only take off and land but also communicate with their respective ATC. Despite, my earlier warning/disclaimer, I have found no unintended consequences of using the above 4 settings and in fact, they enhance the immersion in geographic areas with a lot of airports.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/19/2019 at 10:44 PM, jabloomf1230 said:

I did a bit more testing and poking around on the activity levels. It seems like VOXATC will generate a maximum number of AI Aircraft (with the default settings this number appears to be 250 +/-) . The activity setting in the VOXATC settings appears to be multiplied by the maximum number of AI aircraft (not including helicopters) divided by 100. So by default, at a 50% level in the VOXATC settings, VOXATC will never generate more than 125 aircraft. 

Now for the interesting stuff. I discovered a website via the Wayback Machine, which I now can't find again, that mentioned additional settings in VASettings.xml that don't appear in the default file. I had no idea whether these settings were for VOXATC 6 and were deprecated or they actually did something. Here they are:


      <MaxParkedAircraft Value="120" />
		...
      <MaxEnrouteAircraft Value="xxx" />
      <MaxActiveTerminalAircraft Value="yyy" />
      <TrafficGeneratedAtAllAirports Value="TRUE" />

Considering that the default value for MaxParkedAircraft is included in the file and is equal to 120, the other two settings must add up to somewhere around 130. The settings do appear to work. The last setting causes VOXATC to display aircraft on the ground at airports adjacent to the location of the user aircraft. The default value is FALSE. This is similar to the trick of changing to a nearby airport's tower frequency temporarily to get VOXATC to display traffic at that nearby airport.

Anyway, all these settings potentially could severely impact performance, so I strongly recommend against fiddling around with them too much. Keep in mind that they are maximum numbers. Unless one has a ton of AIG flightplans like I do, one may never get close to the values. I'd also worry about how these settings interact with the settings in the FSUIPC Traffic Limiter. I tested the settings with all the FSUIPC limiter settings at 50% and the maximum number of AI aircraft at 150. YMMV.

Don't blame me if you fiddle with these settings and break your VOXATC installation. Well, you can blame me, at least I won't feel too guilty about it. :wink:

Jay, I saw your post while I was at work, and couldn’t wait to get home to try it out. Even I don’t contact each airport along the route, to wake them up. Now, there is no need. I flew a GA flight from KCMI to West Bend, which included flying near Chicago, O’Hare. I used your recommended settings. Even some private airports had flights doing circuits. I had more traffic than I’ve seen on any recent flight, and O’Hare was spectacular.  Best tip I’ve seen in a long time. Thanks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The parameters turn out to be similar to those in the FSUIPC AI limiter and using them adds a lot of flexibility as to where one sees AI aircraft (taxiing, parked, enroute). Using smaller numbers for each setting also will help out people with legacy hardware. The control of AI aircraft is also dependent on what CPU cores are assigned in the VOXATC settings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/26/2019 at 7:25 AM, jabloomf1230 said:

 The control of AI aircraft is also dependent on what CPU cores are assigned in the VOXATC settings.

Can you say more about this? For example, are there certain cores that need to be prioritized for VoxATC to gain maximum control of AI aircraft?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's only a performance consideration that could be helpful in a situation where the sim is maxed out on specific cores. VOXATC is split into two pieces. The first is the main "gauge" window that appears onscreen. The second is an executable file that controls the AI aircraft. The latter has an applicable option in the VOXATC Advanced Setting utility which can be used to assign an affinity mask. This will prevent the EXE component from using specific CPU cores. On my 4 core CPU with HT active, I set the EXE to use only cores 7 and 8. 

One has to experiment with the AF setting to see what's best for a specific hardware/software mix.

.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...