Ethiopia crash

[Jim Young 2,356]

Personally, I was shocked to see the pilot in command was 29 years old and the FO was 25.  I know there are some exceptional young pilots in the world but I think they airlines should have put someone a bit more older in one of the seats.  One of these days, with all of the technology, we'll hear of aircraft crashing with 200 people on board and the pilot just had his 21st birthday a week ago. 

[John_Cillis 2,406]

2 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

Personally, I was shocked to see the pilot in command was 29 years old and the FO was 25.  I know there are some exceptional young pilots in the world but I think they airlines should have put someone a bit more older in one of the seats.  One of these days, with all of the technology, we'll hear of aircraft crashing with 200 people on board and the pilot just had his 21st birthday a week ago. 

Did not realize the pilots were so young, still an aircraft should fly within the way aircraft training dictates, if an aircraft takes manhandling to fly, there is something wrong with the design of the aircraft.  My CFI was a scant 25 years old when I started taking Light Sport instruction, yet I trusted his skills because he was first a pilot with airline transport experience, he was also a great hands on pilot teaching me how to fly a microlight, which is a tricky type of aircraft to fly, being prone to getting whipped around in the chop.  On my first lesson, he grilled me on my MSFS experience and said OK, he felt comfortable with me handling the takeoff without his direction, but he advised me to give him the aircraft if I felt uncomfortable. 

His first critique, once I had the aircraft in the air, was that MSFS made me too "instrument centric", i.e. I did not look outside enough, he could see that by tracking my eye movements on climbout.  He taught me how to fly the aircraft, not let the aircraft fly me.  But in later lessons he challenged me, "I made you a good flyer, but it takes practice practice practice to be a good pilot".  He was referring to ATC drill, navigation (which I found was harder than I imagined, because airports are not always easy to spot when you are in the air, they blend in with their surroundings), fuel management, and energy management.

I have only flown with one CFI I considered better, a man named Phil Leroy, but my young CFI Jason Bullard out of Falcon Field Arizona could have handled that 737, had it not had issues, and he might have still been able to fly out of it.  I have found, since I have flown with older pilots, that they can get a wee bit arrogant and cocky at their skills, they lose the fear they are supposed to have of hitting the mother earth with souls on board.  Tenerife, which happened just before my first Atlantic crossing in '77, was an example of that.  Age does not factor into a good flight crew, teamwork does, as thousands of WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf Wars pilots can attest to.  They have a good safety record, and they are young eagles indeed. 

John

[qqwertz 772]

17 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

Personally, I was shocked to see the pilot in command was 29 years old and the FO was 25.

Well within US regulations:

https://www.pilotcareernews.com/whats-the-minimum-age-for-a-commercial-airline-pilot/

Peter

[IUBrian 151]

Very disappointed in Boeing. But I would reiterate the point I made weeks ago - this forum, and specifically this topic in this forum, has been ahead of the curve in terms of discussing this incident. Just a ton of information, intelligent and respectful dialogue and debate. For an word not allowed such as myself it’s been illuminating, but beyond that, the ability of people in this forum to disagree, even heatedly (and with sarcasm) but without personal insult is a credit to everyone involved and sadly a rarity in the anonymity of the internet.

 

[KevinAu 441]

5 hours ago, n4gix said:

In AOPA's AviationeBrief today has a linked article. The summary of which is...

Since MCAS is only supposed to be active when flaps are fully retracted, is it possible that this second issue is related somehow?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/ethiopia-says-pilots-performed-boeings-recommendations-to-stop-doomed-aircraft-from-diving-urges-review-of-737-max-flight-control-system/2019/04/04/3a125942-4fec-11e9-bdb7-44f948cc0605_story.html?utm_term=.0de241b1cb21&wpisrc=nl_sb_smartbrief

There is another feature of the flight control logic new in the max that pertains to the flaps. On the max, in certain flap positions, the spoilers automatically extend to maintain a pitch attitude similar to older models. It is possible that this is the feature being referred to now that they are taking a hard look at everything.

Edited April 6, 2019 by KevinAu

[Boeing or not going 578]

4 hours ago, Jim Young said:

Personally, I was shocked to see the pilot in command was 29 years old and the FO was 25.  I know there are some exceptional young pilots in the world but I think they airlines should have put someone a bit more older in one of the seats.  One of these days, with all of the technology, we'll hear of aircraft crashing with 200 people on board and the pilot just had his 21st birthday a week ago. 

The captain of the plane was Yared Getachew, 29, who had been flying with the airline for almost nine years^[29] and had logged a total of 8,122 flight hours.

pasted from wikipedia. Nothing wrong about that. A young cadet had a lot of experience

[fluffyflops 1,846]

7 hours ago, Jim Young said:

Personally, I was shocked to see the pilot in command was 29 years old and the FO was 25.  I know there are some exceptional young pilots in the world but I think they airlines should have put someone a bit more older in one of the seats.  One of these days, with all of the technology, we'll hear of aircraft crashing with 200 people on board and the pilot just had his 21st birthday a week ago. 

At easyJet there is 24 year old captains with 21 year old first officers. 

At virgin we have 23 year olds on the 330.

This is the new norm, you got michael oleary to thank for that. 

Edited April 6, 2019 by tooting

[Boeing or not going 578]

14 minutes ago, tooting said:

At easyJet there is 24 year old captains with 21 year old first officers. 

At virgin we have 23 year olds on the 330.

This is the new norm, you got michael oleary to thank for that. 

Aviation safer as the years pass so blaming young people makes little sense

[fluffyflops 1,846]

10 hours ago, cowpatz said:

Yes........never trust a bird.....and they are difficult to throw.

What do you think would happen say for example the 🇪🇹 caa said 'yup we found the issue its definitely a boeing issue'  all hell would break loose 

 

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737max/737-max-update.page

Edited April 6, 2019 by tooting

[Bobsk8 12,550]

5 hours ago, tooting said:

What do you think would happen say for example the 🇪🇹 caa said 'yup we found the issue its definitely a boeing issue'  all hell would break loose 

 

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737max/737-max-update.page

Just listened to the news this morning, and Boeing finally admitted it is their fault according to the newscast. Guess they finally quit trying to blame the pilots/ 

[G-RFRY 1,708]

Could end up being another Bhpol  it happened on foreign soil drag it out in the courts relatives will die off.

US company caused 4,000 deaths some have still not seen any compensation. 

[Wise87 1,275]

So which is it, age or flight hours? A 29 year old with over 8000 flight hours is pretty impressive. I know some older folks who decided to get into aviation later in life and they don't even come close having the experience or the hours. I know that everyone perceives age with experience. Being retired Air Force all the pilots I worked with on a daily basis were pretty young flying the fighter and the heavies. I've been around some older pilots who I wouldn't want to fly with and I've been around some younger ones who could fly like and old pro. Now I do agree that a young pilot with low hours and experience should not be put in a position of PIC.  

Edited April 6, 2019 by Wise87

[honanhal 1,420]

Yeah, surely if it’s a choice between a 29 year old with 8000 hours or a 49 year old with the same hours you’d choose the younger pilot — the advantage of age is experience, but youth has basically all the other advantages: better reaction times, better sight, hearing, etc. etc.

It’s frankly a bit strange to me to see that some people here are still thinking it makes sense to put this on the pilots (or at least strongly hint in that direction). Not even Boeing is still making that case...

James

[mabe54 17]

https://theberkshireedge.com/family-of-sheffields-samya-stumo-files-lawsuit-against-boeing/

This forced Boeing's hand and the change of attitude of the CEO. You can find the YouTube of the family and lawyer talking to the press. Now it became real.

Cheers,

 

[Bobsk8 12,550]

1 hour ago, honanhal said:

Yeah, surely if it’s a choice between a 29 year old with 8000 hours or a 49 year old with the same hours you’d choose the younger pilot — the advantage of age is experience, but youth has basically all the other advantages: better reaction times, better sight, hearing, etc. etc.

It’s frankly a bit strange to me to see that some people here are still thinking it makes sense to put this on the pilots (or at least strongly hint in that direction). Not even Boeing is still making that case...

James

It's easier to blame the pilots rather than a multi Billion dollar corporation.