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John_Cillis

Ethiopia crash

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1 hour ago, 757FO said:

do you have any evidence that backs up your claim? 

It’s this kind of #&#$$##& that just grabs me by the boo boo. It’s the US tax payer that is going eat these two crashes ( so far) not the Boeing investor.


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The grounding of this airframe is a complete overstepping of power....  I'm shocked.


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I can't help but wonder if there may be some new (unpublished) information about the ET302 incident that may have formed the basis for the latest grounding of the entire fleet.

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As the FAA is an executive agency, I’m not entirely sure it is an overstepping of power. It may be, but it’s not that clear cut.

And contrary to an earlier post, the crash of 2 new model aircraft within 6 months may not be be statistically significant in the sense of establishing a trend. It is however given the apparent similarities and lack of obvious other causes a statistical anomaly that is arguably significant enough to warrant grounding.


Brian Johnson

 

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10 minutes ago, rmeier said:

I can't help but wonder if there may be some new (unpublished) information about the ET302 incident that may have formed the basis for the latest grounding of the entire fleet.

I doubt it. Trump is just responding to what he’s been watching on tv all morning.

Edited by KevinAu

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1 minute ago, IUBrian said:

As the FAA is an executive agency, I’m not entirely sure it is an overstepping of power.

I believe the over-stepping of power is in reference to an order being signed by a President.  Additionally, Boeing claims they "determined -- out of an abundance of caution and in order to reassure the flying public of the aircraft's safety -- to recommend to the FAA the temporary suspension of operations of the entire global fleet of these jets".  Hmmm... first the government claims they are shutting down ops of the aircraft, and then Boeing claims they are requesting the FAA to do so.

A whole lotta "backside covering" goin' on here already...

Greg

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I don’t know - if a President can can ATC for going on strike he can probably ground a plane. He could probably can the head of the FAA if he didn’t ground the Max, and replace him with someone who would, so there may be an argument that an executive order wasn’t the right way to go about it, but it’s a distinction without a difference. 

I say this as someone who tends to be in the Boeing camp, but absent terrorism, even if you can attribute the problem to pilot error, it’s an error that appears, based upon the statistical unlikelihood of two new planes of the exact type crashing within 6 months, to be uniquely attributable to this particular model. It doesn’t mean that it is, and investigation may prove otherwise, but grounding is appropriate, imo.


Brian Johnson

 

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In any case, the entire fleet or the vast majority of those flying have been grounded world wide. Now we wait for the responses of the inspections, detective work by the necessary agencies, and Boeing's in house investigations. Nothing else to do at this point.


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1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

It seems that President Trump has decided to ground all 737 MAX planes in the USA....

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/03/13/donald-trump-says-he-signed-order-ground-boeing-737-max-8/3152157002/

Although it is true that President Trump did appear to announce it,  to it's credit, the emergency order was in fact issued by the FAA

https://twitter.com/FAANews?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author 

here is the order:

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/Emergency_Order.pdf

 

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2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Oh please, wake up, do you have any idea how much Boeing pay's lobbyists?   https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/lobby.php?id=D000000100

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/12/politics/boeing-capitol-hill-lobbying/index.html

 

 

Here we go with the conspiracy theorists, yes off course Boeing is paying lawmakers to put unsafe aircraft in the air. Give me a break!!!

 No one knows the exact cause of this sad event. Let the investigation complete and stop speculating. 

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I don't ever agree with Orange man bad, but this time I do. Good call on grounding the Max in the US.

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Jacek G.

 

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51 minutes ago, 757FO said:

Here we go with the conspiracy theorists, yes off course Boeing is paying lawmakers to put unsafe aircraft in the air. Give me a break!!!

 No one knows the exact cause of this sad event. Let the investigation complete and stop speculating. 

Nobody is speculating except you claiming that Boeing doesn't try and influence government policies. Anyway, now we will find out what the real problem with the aircraft is, if any  and  no more people will lose their lives before this problem is solved... 

Edited by Bobsk8

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Personally I’m not embracing any conspiracy theories, but in some cases perception, if not reality, is as important as reality. Knowing the international patronage of this forum I say this as an American and fan of Boeing, but regardless of whether you believe conspiracies or that Boeing exerts undue influence over the FAA and NTSB, in particular the latter which has been considered the gold standard, clearly others do. Valid or not that perception is a big problem.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-03-13/ethiopia-to-send-737-s-black-boxes-to-europe-in-snub-to-u-s

 

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Brian Johnson

 

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5 hours ago, AviatorMan said:

I was wondering along the same line as you, and yet I have seen on the news earlier today that over the last several months, U.S. airline flight crews (presumably very well trained) have reported a number of incidents where a similar control anomaly occurred - 737 Max where the MCAS was causing nose down action when stall was not imminent - but the crews were able to overcome the problem and stabilize the aircraft.

Not quite right. These incidents occurred seconds after engaging the autopilot. As I said earlier, the MCAS is designed to kick in at high AoAs when flaps are up and the autopilot is off. Whatever caused these incidents, it was not the MCAS.


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38 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Nobody is speculating except you claiming that Boeing doesn't try and influence government policies. Anyway, now we will find out what the real problem with the aircraft is, if any  and  no more people will lose their lives before this problem is solved... 

Where did I claim anything? I asked for someone to provide the source of their claim. Stop putting words in people's mouth please

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