Heard something about the crew reporting problems with the airco a while before loosing contact.As to why they didn't use masks, who knows. Maybe they tried but the masks didn't work, maybe they never had time to when things went from bad to worse.

The latest from Dutch videotext:Helios is grounded because the pilots refuse to fly their aircraft any longer.Seems there have been quite a few "irregularities" and maintenance problems with them lately including failing airconditioning and problems with the emergency O2 supply.

From the newspaper:- 30 minutes after departure pilotes reported problems with the AC.- Many Cypriots called to radio and television channels stating they noticed similar scenarios on their Helios flights where it would either be way too cold or hot.- The F16 spotted deployed oxygen masks in the cabin.- The plane was cruising FL330. Without proper cabin pressure or oxygen you stay conscious for only 15-30 seconds.The article also states that oxygen masks do not automatically deploy in the cockpit. Is this true? Shouldn't there be some kind of warning signal? It only takes 10 seconds to set up the autopilot to descend to 10000 ft @ 4000 fpm or so ??Joris

It will be interesting to read the black box reports, I can't imagine a crew taking a plane without O2 for the pilots. An explosive decompression is one of the many emergencies that pilots train for in a simulator.

Some do automatically drop, not all, but none of them automatically go to the pilots face for breathing. Just like the pax, they just drop and it's up to you to wear it. I've heard different views on explosive decompression, some pilots say the first thing you should do is knock the autopilot off and trim down, because you won't be able to breath immediately anyway even after donning the mask because of the change in air pressure, but the emergency procedures call for donning the O2 first than fly the plane.Guess you have to be there to know for sure, but either way, once you have the mask on your face you're supposed to be able to breath. It sounds like they new they had a problem by the ATC reports, if that's the case than at least one of the pilots should've got there mask on and started down and everything should've been OK.

The masks in the cockpit are quick donning masks, not the kind that deploy from the ceiling like those in the cabin, and are always within reach. If the cabin altitude exceeds 10,000' there are warnings in the cockpit.Even if both packs failed suddenly, it would still have taken several minutes for the cabin altitude to reach 33,0000' as the pressurisation outflow valves will go into the fully closed position, limiting the rate at which the aircraft depressurises. It is not an explosive event like movies will make you believe. Only if there was a big hole in the cabin would the cabin immediately vent to an altitude of 33,000'.All in all, this story smells of fish. Either extreme malice or extreme incompetence is required to take a so called air-conditioning problem to this outcome.

OK I see. This is rather strange.

It appears that this very aircraft, 5B-DBY, has had had a previous incident with decompression, according to a newspaper article. I find that rather scary. The was also a report about dodgy maintenance on one of their aircraft, observed by some mechanics on a Norwegian airport. -

>must've been a problem with the a/c...some passenger wrote a>message saying "farewell cousin, we're freezing"...terrible...>The person who reported receiving this message has been arrested on suspicion of lying.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg

>JS: I agree the message from the PAX while the aircraft was>in a decompression and subsequent terrain collision is a very>strange event. >Apparently it was a hoax and the fellow who reported getting the message had been arrested by the Greek police - he was lying.Michael J.

First off, condolences to those families and friends.Second, having been on a real world loss of pressure aboard our trusty E-3, I can say that's hard to believe that the pilots weren't able to don their "quick don oxygen masks," which is the exact same thing we use on our plane. Time of "useful conciousness" at 33,000ft is limited to about a minute or less, though some can cope longer. Anyway having noticed the loss of pressure, you would have more than enough time to throw the oxygen mask on. Just a little FYI.Jeff*Edit* It would be extremely difficult to believe that the aircraft didn't have a functioning oxygen system or that the pilots' oxygen regulators were in disrepair, this is the most basic life support system on the aircraft.

Ok...makes more sense than the original story.Thanks,bt

Hi Jeff...as a pilot and a logical thinking person I too would say the pilots had every opportunity to manage this. But then we are reminded of the Payne Stewart Learjet to show us how completely unexplainable the unexplainable is.Cheers,btLink to article about Payne Stewart Learjet: http://www.cnn.com/US/9910/26/wayward.jet.02/

Very true.Jeff

Guys,We might be looking the wrong way. I'm not a specialist, just a commercial maintenance engineer, so, please, correct me if I am wrong.I dunno what gas they use in Air Conditioning on aircrafts, but on earth it is usually R22. This is tasteless, transparent gas which you can breathe and don't notice anything, but it is heavier than air. That's why usually they put a gas leak alarms near chillers.So in this theory I would think there could be a major gas leak somewhere in cockpit or cabin (keep in mind previous A/C and maintenance issues on this plane). Pilots seen the A/C fault light and notified ATC. Then keeping in mind that the cockpit is a very confined space, especially if the door is shut, the air is quickly pushed out by R22 (or whatever they use in there) and pilots loose consiosness and, probably, die from the lack of oxygen. In cabin the air volume is much greater so there was a chance for some of the passengers to remain consiouss till cabin air is renewed.Crazy theory, prove I'm wrong if anybody deals with A/C system on Boeings.