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hornplayer

convince me to buy the 747 base for p3d4

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33 minutes ago, Avidean said:

I need another study level aircraft I'll probably buy one.

Have you considered going over to Hardy's website and buying Precision Simulator 10?


I Earned My Spurs in Vietnam

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16 hours ago, Avidean said:

Kyle, look I know it's your job to defend and promote PMDG. If the best defense you are making on behalf of PMDG against my point is to correct my spelling mistake, then I think that will look bad to an impartial jury. I'll explain the metaphor. The product is clothed in a value for money narrative. The product has no clothes i.e. no value for money.

It really isn't my job. I'm really (clearly) not the best PR person. I just jumped in to make a joke. It seems to flown over heads, though, so I'll explain:

Your posts have all been filled with a bunch of arguments to emotion. It's a logical fallacy that attempts to play on the reader's emotions to win them over (namely an appeal to ridicule and another to repugnance, but also faulty generalizations in the realms of the "average simmer," and false authority in the realm of understanding the complexities of running a business, in which one example contains a formal fallacy of affirming the consequent). In order to draw attention to this, I jokingly used my own logical fallacy: ad hom. The first shot was a joking ad hom, and the second one was an admission that the first post was a joke (and an awful argument - I literally admitted that it was ad hom, though I did point out the logical fallacy of the appeal to emotion in this second post). I then attempted to make the joke a little clearer by being a pedant (doubling down on the previously acknowledged ad hom).

 

 

 

You go to the corner store and you see M&Ms and another package right next to it of Generic Candy-Coated Chocolate Oblate Spheroids. The former are more expensive, but are largely the same: chocolate oblate spheroids that have a dyed hard-panned candy shell. What economic principles are in play here? Is the discrepancy in cost parity a valid argument that the demand curve has been misread by Mars? If so, why is the price so inelastic, and why are M&Ms still a market leading product?

Econ is fun. It's a wonder companies actually spend any amount of time studying it in order to keep doing that whole...business...thing...

 


Kyle Rodgers

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Thanks!😁 I needed that!😜 Have a nice day. Don't forget to put your anorak on if your going outside.

BTW, There is a difference between logic and reason.

Just so you know I intend to give you the last word. So don't expect a reply to your next post.🤐

Edited by Guest

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7 minutes ago, Avidean said:

Thanks!😁 I needed that!😜 Have a nice day. Don't forget to put your anorak on if your going outside.

I mean...case in point...

The meat of the discussion finally gets laid on the table and all the sudden the called bluff ends up in a folded hand.

7 minutes ago, Avidean said:

BTW, There is a difference between logic and reason.

This is true. You need reason to apply logic successfully. Interestingly, the very existence of this discussion is a direct result of a verifiable track record of successes through reason.

Logic is understanding "buy low, sell high." Reason is understanding that you're probably better off listening to the likes of Buffett and Dalio instead of telling them how the concept is best put into practice.

9 minutes ago, Avidean said:

Just so you know I intend to give you the last word. So don't expect a reply to your next post.🤐

Thank you.


Kyle Rodgers

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On 3/27/2019 at 12:59 PM, Avidean said:

And correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the TFDi 717 is a Boeing licensed addon.

A lot of addons have that notice. All it means is Boeing have agreed to let the developer use their name and logo. It says nothing about the quality of the sim. Not knocking the TFDi 717 at all, btw, it’s a very high quality product. “Boeing licensed product” is very different to the data agreement PMDG have with Boeing. I expect the cost of that data is a big part of the price difference between the likes of iFly and PMDG. Most users probably won’t notice the difference between the iFly simulation and PMDG’s. In which case there’s no reason to pay extra. However others like the authenticity of PMDG as well as the official manuals you get. As the saying goes, “you pays your money and you takes your choice.”

I’ve never regretted a PMDG purchase. Certainly not the 747v3 which is a sublime simulation. I use it mostly for cargo flights which gives me a wide choice of routes, by no means all of them long haul. 

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ki9cAAb.jpg

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All the responses have been enlightening. I downloaded a "brand" product 737 tested for several days and found to be inaccurate on many details such as simple things like changing barometer settings, radio frequency settings, and on one approach to KSEA, the aircraft speed would switch from 45 knots back to 350knots in a matter of 2 seconds...On a 30 day trial period, I have requested a refund, and received that refund to purchase the PMDG 737 (800-900) model for P3DV.x....I still use FSX on drive D with all of the PMDG's and other brand  aircraft. I have a very high end computer which will handled all the scenery and "add-ones".

I am requesting the admin to close my blog.

Bob A


Bob Adams

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On 3/29/2019 at 3:40 PM, scandinavian13 said:

It really isn't my job. I'm really (clearly) not the best PR person. I just jumped in to make a joke. It seems to flown over heads, though, so I'll explain:

Your posts have all been filled with a bunch of arguments to emotion.

To be perfectly honest, it's your posts that come across as overly defensive. The poster you are addressing has provided his reasoning and whether or not you agree with said reasoning, it's pretty dismissive (and frankly a rhetorical cheap shot) to belittle the reasoning as "emotional" in an attempt to make his point appear irrelevant without actually addressing any of them.

I don't really have strong feelings here, I've bought PMDG products and I am currently using them but your behavior in public certainly has an influence on future purchase decisions.

Regarding the pricing... it's ultimately your choice. I don't criticize companies for the pricing decisions they make. You're perfectly entitled to go with the pricing you think makes sense for your products while I'm perfectly entitled to not buy the product if I have a different view.

The reasoning for having to pay the full price for the 747 again certainly left a bitter taste in my mouth because the P3D version is not a completely new development and the added costs of having to provide support for future versions of P3D is something all other developers are dealing with as well. I did end up buying it. Will I do it for other products? Unlikely because again... I'm perfectly entitled to decide when I've had enough of a specific pricing policy. Whether or not it works out for you, that's not for me to decide.

Edited by flycln
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6 hours ago, flycln said:

To be perfectly honest, it's your posts that come across as overly defensive. The poster you are addressing has provided his reasoning and whether or not you agree with said reasoning, it's pretty dismissive (and frankly a rhetorical cheap shot) to belittle the reasoning as "emotional" in an attempt to make his point appear irrelevant without actually addressing any of them.

I didn't belittle anything, and I didn't call him emotional. The logical fallacy that was part of his argument is called appeal to emotion. That's it. Nothing more. It's a fact. Facts are facts. The problem is that appeals to emotion don't deal in facts. The reason for the appeal to the emotion is usually because of the lack of facts, or facts in the face of the argument: believe this because it's morally right, instead of factually right.

There's nothing wrong with mounting a defense, either.

If someone tells you that your user name is flyzqr, then your correction of their assertion in the face of facts doesn't make you defensive. Your statement of fact that it is factually flycln is a defense backed by facts. There's nothing wrong with that.

6 hours ago, flycln said:

I'm perfectly entitled to decide when I've had enough of a specific pricing policy.

If anyone read into my posts that they are not entitled to this, then I would ask that they go back to read my posts.

I never argued against people having opinions, or that their decisions to buy or not buy are right or wrong. I was pointing out that the very fervent posts - that were devoid of any factual content - were poor arguments. Your argument, in contrast, is actually pretty well-reasoned. I don't necessarily like seeing all of it, but you've clearly couched it as your opinion, you pointed out a disagreement with my earlier posts, which I can understand, and that's that.


Kyle Rodgers

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On 4/2/2019 at 6:16 AM, hornplayer said:

All the responses have been enlightening. I downloaded a "brand" product 737 tested for several days and found to be inaccurate on many details such as simple things like changing barometer settings, radio frequency settings, and on one approach to KSEA, the aircraft speed would switch from 45 knots back to 350knots in a matter of 2 seconds...On a 30 day trial period, I have requested a refund, and received that refund to purchase the PMDG 737 (800-900) model for P3DV.x....I still use FSX on drive D with all of the PMDG's and other brand  aircraft. I have a very high end computer which will handled all the scenery and "add-ones".

I am requesting the admin to close my blog.

Bob A

 

Same experience. But I’ll openly admit it was the ifly which I view a Mickey Mouse product. Poorly developed isn’t even strong enough. Embarrassing comes to mind...

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On 3/27/2019 at 12:15 PM, hornplayer said:

I have about $150.00 to buy a payware airplane. I am using P3DV4.X the latest version...I haven't purchased any PMDG aircraft for P3Dv4, but did purchase all the PMDG aircraft for FSX...At the moment, I am using other brands, but not totally satisfied with them...I am toying between a "new" airbus from another company or  the PMDG 747..."Queen of the sky" base for $136, I believe...

If someone can convince me why I should buy PMDG product over other brands in a couple of hours from now, I will purchase the PMDG. This might sound silly, but I need some "frank" opinions...

Bob, 

Just DO IT if you haven't done so already, because you won't regret moving from FSX to P3D.  Choosing PMDG's B744 (and B747-8) version for P3Dv4.5 over the 32 bit FSX version is well worth it in my opinion, in spite of the fact that it means shelling out more hard earned pocket money!  PMDG are making software improvements to their aircraft all the time, but the difference between the number of animations available on the PR3PARED v4.5 aircraft compared to the FSX version is well worth the move alone (for example, you don't get Rainmaker in the FSX aircraft) - and you won't come up against the dreaded FSX Out of Memory issues either.

Edited by berts

Bertie Goddard

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... but I'd stick to P3DV4.4 for now. Lots of issues being reported with 4.5 so I've read elsewhere on here. That is if you use VR. 

If you don't use VR, I'd seriously recommend you try it. It will rock your simming world!


Mark Harris.

Aged 52. 

P3D,  & DCS mostly. DofReality P6 platform partially customised and waiting for parts. Brunner CLS-E Yoke and Pedals. Winwing HOTAS and Cougar MFDS.

Scan 3XS Laptop i9-9900K 3.6ghz, 64GB DDR4, RTX2080.

B737NG Pilot. Ex Q400, BAe146, ATP and Flying Instructor in the dim and distant past! SEP renewed and back at the coal face flying folk on the much deserved holidays!

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4 hours ago, MarkJHarris said:

... but I'd stick to P3DV4.4 for now. Lots of issues being reported with 4.5 so I've read elsewhere on here. That is if you use VR. 

If you don't use VR, I'd seriously recommend you try it. It will rock your simming world!

I've only been seeing issues with other add-ons causing the usual sim crashes on version number checks.

The only reports I've seen, VR-wise are that it's "smoother," unless you're around the orbx super-hi-def areas, where it goes to snot (somewhat expectedly - those are hard areas to render).


Kyle Rodgers

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I have owned both the Ifly and now the PMDG 744 for P3D.  To me, there seems to be a great difference in favor of the PMDG product.  It just feels smoother and realistic to fly.  The 737 series is not as different as I have both of those.  

 

To the original poster, I also recommend P3D along with spending the extra money on the PMDG 747-400. Two of my VA's allow free subsitution of aircraft so its not a problem.  I cannot comment on the FSL airbus as I own the other one.

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