Permanent Terrain Adjustments - "Terrain Hopping"

[Sethos 4,298]

5 minutes ago, pgde said:

Nemo -- just a quick OT question -- why are you running at 3440x1440 rather than 3840x2160?

Think it's an ultrawide monitor, not a 4K.

[pgde 571]

Duh -- thanks for the insight!

[Nemo 1,305]

On 4/3/2019 at 9:21 PM, pmb said:

This has been an enemy of mine for ages. As Sethos1988 states, it's caused by LOD switching when approaching a certain point. As the OP says, it's not everywhere prominent. Moreover, I have found it's much more noticeable if you use a high resolution mesh (like Pilot's Ultra) and for obvious reasons in mountain terrain.

It's been a "feature" of Prepar3d as long as I can think back. Obviously, no one from LM seems to be disturbed by it. 

I should add that neither X-Plane nor Aerofly shows this issue. However, the short-lived Dovetail sim - for obvious reasons - shared it, and again, even more if you installed the Pilot's mesh. 

Kind regards, Michael 

I am still wondering why this issue is so prominent in some areas and in other areas it is not. Comparing the area around Wellington (NZNI) with the area around Orcas Islands and Friday Harbor (PNW), I get strong anomalies around NZWN but nearly none around KFHR. Both are ORBX FTX Regions together with other demanding scenery as well as small mountains and hills next to the sea. That's why I don't believe it's only a mesh problem. There must be something else in the equation.

[guenseli 1,577]

My assumption is (and it is only a bare assumption), that it is also tied to performance.

I have this issue more prominent when I have more clouds or demanding weather, or different daytime (shadows) etc. I would tend to say, the issue is always present, but depends on overall systems current workload if you could see it better (nearer?) or maybe farer away.

[Nemo 1,305]

32 minutes ago, guenseli said:

My assumption is (and it is only a bare assumption), that it is also tied to performance.

I have this issue more prominent when I have more clouds or demanding weather, or different daytime (shadows) etc. I would tend to say, the issue is always present, but depends on overall systems current workload if you could see it better (nearer?) or maybe farer away.

But then my above comparison would not be as it is. I have much better performance around Wellington as at Friday Harbor area. But "terrain hopping" occurs at NZWN and not at KFHR area. Weather is comparable (scattered clouds from ASP4/REX SF). I agree that performance plays a role but there must be something else.

Edited April 5, 2019 by Nemo

[onebob 125]

6 hours ago, Nemo said:

But "terrain hopping" occurs at NZWN

Just done a flight out of NZWN up to NZTG, didn't experience anything like you described, Running FTX NZ.

just a thought did you run the FlightBeam Manager and check the ' Troubleshooting' tab for conflicts, I had quite a few.

bob   edit ….  see also the FAQ's

Edited April 5, 2019 by onebob

[Nemo 1,305]

3 hours ago, onebob said:

Just done a flight out of NZWN up to NZTG, didn't experience anything like you described, Running FTX NZ.

just a thought did you run the FlightBeam Manager and check the ' Troubleshooting' tab for conflicts, I had quite a few.

bob   edit ….  see also the FAQ's

Yes, I did. Maybe sth. else is wrong at my side.

[BBCM 42]

I don't know if this will help, and maybe you've already tried these, but a couple of thoughts:

1. What Mesh Resolution setting are you using? Orbx "full fat" regions come with their own 10 meter terrain mesh. Orbx suggests using a 5 Meter Mesh Resolution setting to get certain POI's to show (like helicopter pads in the mountains or such). I find that using a 2 Meter Mesh Resolution or higher in those Orbx regions seems to increase LOD popping (as well as hitting FPS on my aging machine). 

2. I see you're using a third party mesh FSGlobalNG. If possible, try turning that off for the Orbx full fat regions you're flying in, and see if that makes a difference. I have Pilot's Global Ultimate, which shows in the scenery library divided up by continent, so it's relatively easy to turn continent mesh on or off as required. I find that turning it off when flying in the Orbx full fat regions not only seems to reduce LOD popping, but also stuttering as well.

As said, I don't know if that will be of any help, everyone's system seems to produce different results, but they're easy enough to try.

-Bob 

[pmb 5,137]

Bob, according to my experience you're right in both cases.

1. I always use the suggested 5 Meter setting in ORBX regions. This is also the best gurantee against elevation anomalies around airports and others. 

2. I always deactivate (using SimStarter) any Pilot's mesh when flying in ORBX regions. These regions come with their own Holger mesh optimally fitted to the rest of the scenery (and being tested together).

I agree these two measures help fighting "terrain popping" but don't completely eliminate it, at least not on my system. Outside of ORBX regions I use the "mild" Pilot's 2008 mesh instead of Global Ultimate now. Less ripples and peaks, but also less popping.

Kind regards, Michael

[Nemo 1,305]

8 hours ago, onebob said:

Just done a flight out of NZWN up to NZTG, didn't experience anything like you described, Running FTX NZ.

Please, could you fly a RW 16 right traffic pattern @ 1500 ft with a slower a/c and report if you still don't see the anomalies? I have them very present, no matter what setting I use. Mesh is set to 5m as suggested above. I use either FTX own mesh or Pilot's 2018 mesh which seems to make no difference.

[onebob 125]

40 minutes ago, Nemo said:

Please, could you fly a RW 16 right traffic pattern @ 1500 ft with a slower a/c and report if you still don't see the anomalies? I have them very present, no matter what setting I use. Mesh is set to 5m as suggested above. I use either FTX own mesh or Pilot's 2018 mesh which seems to make no difference.

ok I'll ty that, its getting late here so it will be tomorrow,

regards bob

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

On 4/3/2019 at 3:21 PM, pmb said:

I should add that neither X-Plane nor Aerofly shows this issue.

Maybe it has something to do with your mesh resolution and what other add-ons are installed in XP11. Unlike P3d4 which uses a lot of tricks to make sure that at least low resolution terrain mesh and scenery textures are displayed, XP-11 just  goes into "limp mode" when frame rates are substantially degraded.And Aerofly doesn't have much in the way of features or add-ons, so it's not surprising that it performs so much better. . The "terrain hopping" issue in P3d4 doesn't exist in the stock version of P3d4 installed on a fairly new system and that's what LM cares about.  Between a high tessellation setting and using LOD 14 terrain mesh (the top setting in the ORBX regions and except for showcase locations also in FSGU-NG mesh), the hardware can't keep up and the "terrain hopping" issue occurs. The solution is to either buy new hardware or turn down IQ settings. That's a sad fact that is as old as the first desktop flight sim.

[pmb 5,137]

56 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

The "terrain hopping" issue in P3d4 doesn't exist in the stock version of P3d4 installed on a fairly new system and that's what LM cares about. 

Are you sure about that? I can't deny it, as I only see stock P3D for a couple of restarts after a new major version turns up (and, honestly, it looks pretty poor). The next step is always to install ORBX Global and some more ORBX stuff. Anyone to verify/falsify this? I am at least in doubt about the performance aspect. I once made an extensive test where I shifted several sliders up and down, so the system should have performed better or worse, but "terrain hopping" was pretty blind to the slider settings.

Kind regards, Michael