JustSim Barcelona v4.4 pricing policy

[Ray Proudfoot 8,921]

8 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Pricing policy does not need to follow an exact mathematical formula.  It isn't an exact science.   It only needs to ensure the sustainability of continued development and added value to existing products where needed - or desired.

Sorry Erich but that sounds like marketing gobbledegook.

[simbol 5,774]

1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Does adding PBR really take hundreds of hours too? Seems doubtful.

It does, I explained this before you didn't read it? please read my comments here where I show an overview of the process:

 

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

But don’t you see that by charging the same price for v2 as they did for v1 you aren’t getting paid for your efforts. Imagine if no one who bought v1 paid the charge for v2. You have put in all that work and not received any more for it than the original

That is the risk of the business, and why we try to put a reasonable upgrade price so our current customers stay with us. And Increasing the price would not ensure more sales either and it could drive new customers away, in hence why your mathematical equation is not being applied or used by developers, sometimes you have to charge less to earn more as more copies sold will generate you a much bigger profit as long term sales have to be also considered, if you deliver good results.. people will find you online over a period of time and buy the product.

You have to stay competitive Ray despite of how much work you do, and the Flying sim world is a very hard business, there is a reason why so many developers do this only as part time.

Regards,
Simbol

 

 

 

[ErichB 3,638]

2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Sorry Erich but that sounds like marketing gobbledegook.

It's got nothing to do with marketing Ray.  Pricing policy has to cover cost and provide income.

I would rather pay EUR6 to a developer for an upgrade knowing that he'll continue to provide upgrades for each substantial version of P3D rather than what has happened in some cases where we are stuck with products designed for P3D v 2 or v 3  with no upgrades since.

Heaven forbid,  I could lose my job tomorrow and then also feel that EUR 6 for an upgrade might not quite be appropriate for me.  But I wouldn't deny the developer an income for adding value to his product.

 

[SteveW 1,792]

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

You always have to get personal don’t you? 😠

It's always been a concern of mine that the average flight-simmer spends more than a couple of grand on hardware, more often than not, every few years or so it's replaced.

I'm concerned that to enable that hardware, when the software is essential, to some their imagined costs of development and cost of software compared to hardware seems to be vastly out of proportion. That's what I'm saying.

[kevinfirth 1,392]

24 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

But that is my point. v4.4 costs no more than the previous non-PBR version. If it has taken so much effort to build a new version that should be reflected in the price. So why hasn’t the price been increased?

Youre confusing two things ray...

1. you bought v1 and have had the benefit of non PBR texturing.  Youre now being able to buy an upgrade to PBR so you will have had the benefit of both.

2. a new purchasor only gets the PBR content, so they've paid the same as you (sans upgrade) but only had half the benefit.

Youre both paying for the same scenery.  its just that youve both had slightly different benefits of content. Look at it from a different angle perhaps? A new purchasor gets a €6.60 discount because theyve not had the benefit of the non PBR texturing in the past.   Do you want them to pay for something theyve never received?  Seems mighty fair to me...

[Ray Proudfoot 8,921]

4 minutes ago, simbol said:

It does, I explained this before you didn't read it? please read my comments here where I show an overview of the process:

That is the risk of the business, and why we try to put a reasonable upgrade price so our current customers stay with us. And Increasing the price would not ensure more sales either and it could drive new customers away, in hence why your mathematical equation is not being applied or used by developers, sometimes you have to charge less to earn more as more copies sold will generate you a much bigger profit as long term sales have to be also considered, if you deliver good results.. people will find you online over a period of time and buy the product.

You have to stay competitive Ray despite of how much work you do, and the Flying sim world is a very hard business, there is a reason why so many developers do this only as part time.

Regards,
Simbol

Yes, I read your explanation and appreciate there is a lot of work involved. So why no increase at all in the price? Even a few Euros would be logical. I buy airports that cost more than this one and don’t baulk at the price because the exchange rate is a major factor in the price. And that is outside my control.

I fully appreciate the balancing act between price versus sales. Finding that sweet spot is difficult.

I haven’t bought any airports with PBR yet. If it is such a significant improvement I’m surprised there isn’t more discussion about it. Or maybe there is and I have missed it.

[ErichB 3,638]

1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Yes, I read your explanation and appreciate there is a lot of work involved. So why no increase at all in the price? Even a few Euros would be logical. I buy airports that cost more than this one and don’t baulk at the price because the exchange rate is a major factor in the price. And that is outside my control.

I fully appreciate the balancing act between price versus sales. Finding that sweet spot is difficult.

I haven’t bought any airports with PBR yet. If it is such a significant improvement I’m surprised there isn’t more discussion about it. Or maybe there is and I have missed it.

Ray, the irony of your argument is that you are taking a stance against additional charges whilst at the same time providing a supporting argument for higher charges for the base product.

[SteveW 1,792]

Logical. When I said 'I get it', what I meant was that it might seem slightly illogical the way they went about it. However this is just them being nice about it while having to charge for work.

Who cares how long or how many hours it takes to develop a product, when it's the ability to do the thing that's paid for not the time taken!

Time taken is usually out of proportion with profit on flight-sim add-ons anyway. Symbol well mentioned, often these projects are financed by the developer, grateful to receive something for the work.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,921]

8 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

Youre confusing two things ray...

1. you bought v1 and have had the benefit of non PBR texturing.  Youre now being able to buy an upgrade to PBR so you will have had the benefit of both.

2. a new purchasor only gets the PBR content, so they've paid the same as you (sans upgrade) but only had half the benefit.

Youre both paying for the same scenery.  its just that youve both had slightly different benefits of content. Look at it from a different angle perhaps? A new purchasor gets a €6.60 discount because theyve not had the benefit of the non PBR texturing in the past.   Do you want them to pay for something theyve never received?  Seems mighty fair to me...

Kevin, I get the point that users of v1 have enjoyed the product for longer than v2 customers. But the price increase is over 25% of the original just for PBR. The other improvements are fairly minimal. That seems a hefty increase for a single addition.

I suspect the real reason the PBR version has not increased in price is because of the competition for LEBL. There are also versions by LatinVFR and Aerosoft which surprisingly no one has mentioned.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,921]

7 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Ray, the irony of your argument is that you are taking a stance against additional charges whilst at the same time providing a supporting argument for higher charges for the base product.

I have no control over the exchange rate Erich. The developer doesn’t benefit when the GBP is weaker or stronger. They get paid the same.

Anyway, I appear to be in a minority of one in this discussion and have said all I wanted to say and have tried to defend my case against those who see it differently. We each see things differently and I have no problem with that.

[ErichB 3,638]

Just now, Ray Proudfoot said:

We each see things differently and I have no problem with that.

It's one of those binary situations.  It has always been.  No harm done.  

[SteveW 1,792]

Because of the way add-ons are developed and marketed/paid for, there can be some kind of flexibility in the way things are done. We can expect some oddness in behaviour. That's not to be a concern under the circumstances. Timely updates and other additions are not simple catalogue items and often present complications of sale that can't adhere to such usual logic. None the less it's fine as far as I can see. Nothing personal Ray, sorry if you happen to fall into a category I mentioned, I feel that same way, the value of these kind of products is unquestionable. Sorry to generalise.

 

[Jetset408 108]

I would suggest its up to developers to charge what they want for their projects and if we as consumers don't like the price, then we can choose not to buy it. Simple. I don't go into supermarkets complaining about the different cost of items - I simply make my own mind up on my purchasing decisions based on my own assessment of value and affordability. Im not sure why people feel that they have to behave differently for flightsim addons. Perhaps its the ease with which people can be confrontational online without having to suffer the humiliation of demonstrating just how up-tight they are in public? 🙄

[pracines 823]

14 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Anyway, I appear to be in a minority of one in this discussion and have said all I wanted to say and have tried to defend my case against those who see it differently. We each see things differently and I have no problem with that.

Ray, I read your original post and understood you easily. I also agree with your pricing assessment completely. 

Last I checked the justsim website - its a mess. Some in English, some in other language (that can't seem to be translated), Barcelona is said to be free (???), the shop is down for maintenance.

There is no doubt, they are confused or are overworking themselves into confusion. 

[AnkH 2,233]

Ray, just turn around your thinking and you will be fine ;-) Example: you paid 22€ last year for your copy of LEBL without PBR. Today, the airport is worth only 17€. But you can not buy it anymore without PBR, and with PBR it is again 22€. Means: 5€ more for new customers due to PBR. And 5€ as upgrade price for those who upgrade.

The "mistake" you do: you assume that the old version without PBR is still the same value. It is not. And it is everywhere like this.

If you buy for example a computer for 2000€ in 2018, the same computer but with new hardware, e.g. a newer graphics card, will not cost you 2000€ PLUS the price of the new GPU in 2019. But if you upgrade your 2018 build, you have to pay the price for the new GPU. With your "logic", somebody buying the computer in 2019 should pay for each upgrade your 2018 variant does not yet offer simply because it "can not be" that the 2019 variant is the same price as your 2018 variant. Makes no sense, sorry.

Or, to come back to the JustSim scenery: why should a 2019 variant offering PBR cost more than the 2018 variant back in 2018?