I'm tired of everybodys complaints, if you don't like the missions tough. There will be missions so there is no use for anybody to complain about that fact. For all of you that don't like the idea of missions when fsx comes out try them and maybe you will see they are more fun then you thought. Missions in flight sim are enevitable and will probably be in a lot more versions of fsim to come so I suggest everybody just get used to it.

>and I'm tired of people wanting to turn everything into a>shoot 'm up game where the only thing that counts is the>number of frags you get.There's no "frags" in combat flight sims, try Unreal Tournament :-rollThere is far more skill involved in flying during a dogfight than flying the 172 from point A to point B.Either way, MS has spoken, so you are safe......for now.Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

Our opinion on the upcoming FSX is based on what ACES let us see. Excluding maybe beta-testers, majority of flight simmers create an opinion from those sparse screenshots, shaky videos, and short trailers, and from Mike's and Jason's participation here.I see the pain of "pylon-haters", they are afraid to see as their favorite simulator becomes just another "children" game, and not even a shooter... We were not shown trailers featuring ATC and weather, like in previous MSFS releases. Instead, we were shown ground scenery, wonderful land and water textures, amazing reflective textures on aircraft, detailed objects, moving cars, flexed wings, missions feature ...So, based on that, and what we can gather from ACES responses on these forums, we build our expectations. We see what was major reworking and what was left out of the great improvement loop. We have the right to do our "forecast" and share it with each other, because we don't get the straight and clear list of all upcoming features in the mail. And all the "hints" of beta team and vague responses from devs won't make us just sit, relax and wait till some holiday :)What we see is what we get, and I see improved graphics, missions and a living world to be key features of FSX. I'm happy with that, and I see vast opportunities for 3d party devs to expand on. I'm sure FSX will blossom with these key features, as long as they provide good SDKs. As for more hard-core features, I hope Microsoft will address most them in FS11. Cheers,=S.V.=

My guess for the secrecy is they just have not completed testing or maybe even writing some of the new enhancements and features and will not divulge this information until they are either complete or near completion.From a developer perspective it's called playing it safe because saying something will be in the sim and then not putting it in due to programming conflicts or time restraints has a tendency to cause major problems for them, especially in today's internet society where games are advertised months in advance with specific features. If those features have to be pulled for any reason prior to release it may cause a bit of a stir.Ian.

I've lost the logical progression for this post. :)I hope FS does not become a shoot'm up game as there are other games specifically designed to model combat, and I can not see any evidence which supports FS is moving in that direction. If I remember correctly the FS team has stated that combat will not be a part of FS out of the box. From a bare minimum as has been stated before, FSX will have the same capabilities as FS9, so if someone likes FS9, then they should enjoy FSX.With that said, the graphical and mission enhancements are additional features that some will enjoy and until we know what internal workings of the sim have been upgraded, everyone can just speculate as to which direction the sim is going.Here's a question for everyone, would everyone who is unsatisfied with the graphical and gameplay aspects of the sim be as unhappy if no graphical or gameplay aspects of the sim had been changed, but just the "hard-core" internal workings such as flight dynamics, weather (non-graphical) and ATC had been enhanced? It's an interesting dilemma, and I would love to see an equal amount of enhancements to the graphical and gameplay side and to the hard core side not just one or the other.One reason the graphics and missions are so prevolent is they can be seen, flight models and following correct flight procedures is a bit more obscure, especially to the general public, so here's hoping we'll see a bit more information concerning the latter in the near future.For me personally, any improvement to FS is welcome and should enhance my flightsimming experience irregardless of which side of the fence it pertains to.Ian.

EXACTLY!!!I just don't understand why it's so hard to convince the nay-sayers.Flight Unlimited III had great missions and even hoop flying, and people still play it TODAY. Also, it had extremely realistic flight modelling.I believe true flying is being able to hover a helicopter over a target, or being able to fly hesitation rolls. Flying a 747 following procedures and pushing buttons is more flight-engineering, rather than flying IMHO.I need people to realise that a sim must cater to procedural pilots as well as those that want to have fun.As long as you have a realistic flight model and system model there is no issue.James

FSX will not be a shoot em up. It will give you the opportunity to improve your flying skills.Do you really think that pylon racing isn't real? You obviously don't know as much about aviation as you think you do, then.Remember Flight Unlimited III? Better flight dynamics than FS9 and that had hoops and missions.James

Thanks!I have a sneaking suspicion that there are many who are afraid that they won't have the skill to complete some of the missions, and don't want to get embarrased!James

You obviously don't understand the point I'm making... There have been several posts just like yours where people (kids) demanded guns and explosions because without them FS is "boring" (just what you are claiming in fact, except you want something else instead of the guns).They do want FS to turn into a shoot 'm up game, where you get points for fragging others.Of course pylon racing is real, but I don't want it forced on me.And your attitude that everyone who doesn't feel like you that FS is boring without some scoring system to tell you you just won a thousand points or something is somehow inferior is something you really should work at.As long as I'm free to turn off those pylons (as in the real world, where they're usually put up only for the occasion) and not have them stick out of the landscape everywhere it's fine by me.Leaves me free to putter around the place without having to bother with speedfreaks zipping by and cursing me for not going fast enough.

Most of the missions shipping in FSX are realistic with real-life scenarios forming the basis for the experience. I would expect most add-on missions to be based on real-life scenarios as well.I personally take "As Real as it Gets" pretty seriously and even the game-like missions that have generated so much debate are built on a simulation foundation and require stick and rudder flying skills that are far from arcade. Airline sim pilots may not be too successful in these types of missions if they have come to rely on an autopilot... But as others have said, if you're not up to the task (or not interested), then don't fly them.

>>YOU DON'T HAVE TO FLY THE MISSIONS. YOU CAN ACTUALLY GO AHEAD>AND DO WHAT YOU WERE DOING IN FS9!!!!>Exactly. There is nobody holding a gun to anybody's head, forcing anyone to do a single mission. You will still be able to fly a fully procedural flight from one airport to the next with full ATC, full AI, full procedures as applicable by the aircraft, everything; with no hoops or pylons to fly through. MS is NOT going to shut out all of us "hardcore procedural simmers" in order to give casual gamers a more arcade-style game...Plus.... For those that hate the notion of arade-style missions, you might even be able to DELETE all the mission definition files so that there will never be a single mission in your FSX. No missions, no arcadeism; simple as that. :)Myself, I might do a mission here or there when I just feel like doing something *fun* not related to a complete flight from point A to point B... But, of course, I'm going to primarily stick with the procedural flights..My $.02....

Try to see the wood amongst the trees. Sure, MS working on "fun" elements may draw on budget that may be otherwise put to improving features you find important, but the bigger the future user base of FS the more chance ACES will be around to work on that stuff in future. I'd rather not see FS go the way of other greats like FUIII, ie. MIA, because they didn't make enough sales to keep the flame alive.Gary

I believe missions are essential to the successes of Microsoft Flight Simulator and are only going to make the game better. Like someone said earlier missions are going to draw many more people to the game. Thanks to missions along with the new SDK there is going to be a ton of freeware and payware add-ons to look forward to. And now that the development of missions is almost over with in FSX just wait until flight simulator 11 where hopefully more time will be spent on things like lighting, ATC, Weather, failures Exc... along with the many new people who will be waiting to create amazing add-ons for it. :)

I think something that worries some of us though is the bit where they said some planes were going to be tied to missions, suggesting that was the only way to fly the plane, that is effectively forcing the missions on us if we want to fly that aircraft. I don't want it turning into Project Gotham Racing where we have to unlock planes by completing taks, that's not realistic or fun even in driving games. I like the stuff to be there, or not as the case may be. If somebody like Tdragger can reassure me this is not the case then fine, if ppl want to play the missions and those missions are realistic that's fine by me. I'll have a go at Red Bull, heck I'll probably do the Chopper mission. as to others it all depends on what they are, if it appeals to me from a skill building or realism point of view I may play it, but I do like to be left to do it my way, I didn't ever do the lessons in the last 3 versions, but I'm quite a decent pilot as many of my FSPax flight logs will attest.

I have to compose this post offline due to internet connection issues...I'm sorry but the argument that the introduction of mission based aviation into FSX is turning it into a game is completely false and is based on assumptions that people haven't even seen yet.To start with, every flight in the real world is mission based. You fly a passenger jet full of people across the world, you get paid. You fly a cargo plane in the Caribbean you get paid. You fly a cropduster you get paid... You work in Search and Rescue or the Coast Guard, your mission is to rescue people from burning oil rigs, guess what, you get paid. Mission based flights in the real world help feed families! Need I go on?The only flights in the world that are not mission based are recreational flights, but these are a minority in comparison to the number of flights taking place around the world at any given moment.Did you know that there are over 1 million people in the sky around the world at any given moment? I think I heard that when I was at NASA or something...Anyway the point is, that every flight in the real world has a mission to it... I am almost starting to resent the insinuation that the missions are a game... They are simulated missions. The Air Force runs these types of simulations every day in training, so do the major Airlines with their full size simulators that flight crew must pass every 6-12 months, not to mention line checks etc etc etc...I remember very clearly when my father had been affected very heavily by the flu. I remember how many times he failed his simulator check and when it came down to the last chance he had to pass the simulator he passed. I know the tension of what not passing the simulator means, I know what it is like to nearly have a father lose a $100,000 per year job and the ability to provide for his family because the flu has messed with his ability to pass the simulator...So if anyone is going to knock the new mission based features come here and talk with me, I'll tell you what it's like in the real world... This is a very important feature to have in FS, and it could have been something that my father could have used to not have come so close to failing the real sim, if he had been able to prep for it in Flight Sim. Which by the way he often used, along with a program he wrote himself to help him prepare for his simulator and line checks...BTW my father was flight crew for a major airline and flew 727's and then 767's. I personally hold a private pilot's licence and won the award for the best Air Force Cadet pilot in the state when I was learning to fly.