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P3D v4.5 FPS down

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23 minutes ago, GEKtheReaper said:

Do you guys read the entire topic AND understand it?

Please stop adding new information related to ANY AddOn stuff! LM does not test your AddOn's and some clear reports show a decrease in performance with a VANILLA P3D installation!

Stop cluttering this topic and help them WITH A VANILLA P3D to nail it down. Only with a standard P3D, using a standard ACFT and a standard scenery, they will try to reproduce it.

Adding ORBX or FSL or HIFI or whatsoever Addon won't help anybody so please stop it!

(Please forgive the underlines and the capitals but reading carefully through the 8 pages of the topic, 90% of the reports are related to AddOns when @simbol and Rob and any other developer has begged you to test without addons!)

I’m not saying FTX / Orbx is the issue, only that it highlights the issue. My suggestion is that it is an object draw issue, that has come about in 4.5.

As Rob said, if you use 30hz refresh rate and moderate settings, you may not be aware there is an issue with default, which he has highlighted.

 

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26 minutes ago, GEKtheReaper said:

Adding ORBX or FSL or HIFI or whatsoever Addon won't help anybody so please stop it.

While it might be the most obvious thinking, your logic is plain wrong in regard of finding the bug/error. It is more than possible that an addon provokes or makes a potential bug more prominent and depending on your configuration, you might observe the FPS loss only when using a specific addon that triggers the bug. Means: ALL information is valuable that results in a FPS loss in v4.5, even if for the final solution, it has to work for those not using any addon, of course. Your post simply shows in a not very nice way that you have no idea about problem solving or addressing a root cause analysis.

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5 hours ago, mwa05 said:

What I have found given I have all Orbx Global and Regional packages is that the issue seems to be object call related.

4.4 for me (30hz 4K monitor, i7-6700K, GTX1080ti, 32GB RAM, Windows 10) was smooth in the vast majority of situations, even Aerosoft EGLL with the FSLabs A320.

With 4.5 the best I can get in the same scenario is 19FPS which is unusable given it is so far below the 30hz monitor refresh rate.

What I have discovered is unticking the FTX Scenery folder for the region (leaving the 3 other folders for the region active), the issue disappears.

Thus that narrowed down the issue.

I then took all the .bgl’s out of the FTX Scenery folder, reactivated it and then added the files in bit by bit.

What I found is if I remove the individual airport object files (in FTX England there was 181 XXXX.object.bgl files where XXXX is the aerodrome i.e. EGBD) then the FPS are back to 4.4 levels. It is only the airport object file, not the other (two) files... your airport is still there, it just does not have the custom objects.

This issue seems only to exist using FTX England, the two Germany’s and Southern California and removing their XXXX.object.bgl files (to a safe place) eliminates the issue.

If you have UK2000 EGKK and FTX England, start up at stand 559 in the PMDG 737 or FSLabs A329/320 and you won’t get greater than 19FPS in the VC but if you scan right in the VC (away from the terminal, looking south, FPS return to normal).

Now remove the files to a safe place and repeat, there is no problem, so my  hint as a place to look is the object draw. Something changed from 4.4 to 4.5.

Regards,

Mark

This corresponds to my findings. Except that I believe it is true for all high detailed scenery with many scenery objects being active.  As you stated, view direction plays an important role (even when you don't see them, but not being too far away). It is alo very pronounced in FTX PNW  (+FTX airports).

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5 hours ago, mwa05 said:

This issue seems only to exist using FTX England

Hmmm. I only have FTX Base and Global installed, none of the regional sceneries, and no Vector. I do have UK2000 sceneries too, but the 20%+ drop I get is everywhere, not just at or near airports.

I've not tried turning off FTX Europe.

Rob Ainscough is feeding exact figures to L-M and has isolated the Beta 4.5 version when it first started. So I think L-M should be able to work on it now.

Pete

 

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51 minutes ago, AnkH said:

our post simply shows in a not very nice way that you have no idea about problem solving or addressing a root cause analysis.

Dear @AnkH,

have you read that LM requieres informatiions on vanilla setups? Have you read that the Devs assisting us all try to get test results in a vanilla P3D? Have you read that ALSO vanilla P3D's are affected by the FPS drop?

So why do you think it's a good idea to throw in much more variables into the bowl when the bowl itself is already broken?

Also can you please enumerate how many users have written in this topic and how many did actually compared v4.4 to v4.5 in a vanilla config?

Thank you!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

Rob Ainscough is feeding exact figures to L-M

It's so great to see Rob back in action! 👍

Edited by Rafal
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Hmmm. I only have FTX Base and Global installed, none of the regional sceneries, and no Vector. I do have UK2000 sceneries too, but the 20%+ drop I get is everywhere, not just at or near airports.

I've not tried turning off FTX Europe.

Rob Ainscough is feeding exact figures to L-M and has isolated the Beta 4.5 version when it first started. So I think L-M should be able to work on it now.

Pete

 

Good news re Rob Pete.

I think my mistake was not stipulating that my post here was a copy of my post on the LM forum, where Kayla had asked for more feedback to keep coming and where Rob had said those who use 30hz monitors and have medium settings may not know that there is an issue with default.

That was me as I use 30hz single monitor and have mid range settings and  as I had only flown 4.5 in Australia and obviously not in an area that was going to reveal this issue, so for me, 4.5 was good!

When Rob put out his findings using FTX Germany, I thought well I have that, I will try and I was now at 19FPS.

Thus my comment in context was I only have the (reported FPS reduction) issue (on my PC) with the following Regions. Oddly it does not occur that I could find in the other Regions and the common thing I found with those Regions that I did get the drop, was the ones I listed. Based on my experimenting with the object files, I found what I found, thus I reported to LM. In so far as I was aware, I was the first person reporting that I had found a repeatable cause and effect with a particular type of file (i.e I could get the FPS back by a particular action).

I’m pleased Rob isolated it in a Beta and hopefully we get a hotfix!

Cheers,

Mark

Edited by mwa05
Bad grammar
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Thank you Mark ( @mwa05 ) for the explanation. I was not aware that further progress has been made on the LM forums. I've just read this one and saw that realy nobody was trying to figure out the root cause of the problem.

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Gerald, I work in the problem solving of a big pharma company, and I can tell you one thing: ignoring inputs from whatever side just because you guess that it might be unrelated but that potentially have an effect, is the worst tThing you can do to perform a proper root cause analysis, as you most probably will miss things. Kayla from LM was intentionally asking for all kind of contribution, as she is aware about this fact. That is all I am saying.

As an example: if a memory leak is present in v4.5, this will be of course visible in plain default, but maybe only when using very high settings. However, a normal user with a normal rig might encounter the SAME issue due to the SAME memory leak, but in his case only when using the FSL Airbus as he generally uses lower settings not resulting in any issues when using the default simulator without addons. Means: the addon triggers an issue present in the default simulator without addons.

Now explain me again, why posting Infos about issues with a simulator that has addons installed should be of no use for LM?

It will anyway not be us finding the root cause. As such, we can not contribute directly in finding the root cause. But we can deliver as much information to LM as possible so that they are able to find the root cause. And this includes issues with addons that arose only after the switch to v4.5, even if this adds to complexity...

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I too noticed quite a loss in FPS and I got an i7 8700 and a 1080. I reverted back to 4.4 and my FPS came back. I don’t know what they changed in the CFG but it has lowered the FPS considerably 

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Posted (edited)

Dear @AnkH,

because you obviously did not read what LM (e.g. Kayla) has posted here: https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=196274#p196274

I will quote:

***************

" Hello all,

Can you post your system specs?

Have you tested this without any addons installed?

*****************

It was also mentioned a dozen of times before (in this exact thread) from Devs working with LM that your findings should be without addon's.

 

I will not turn this thread in a personal matter between you and me. Keep up your good work and contribute to the community as you can.

 

Edited by GEKtheReaper

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Posted (edited)

Dear All,

Can someone with the confirmed 30% performance drop FPS issue please try the following test:

1) Right click your Prepar3D.exe V 4.5, find the compatibility tab and set "disable full screen optimisation" 

2) Under Prepar3d settings, disable the "Black-out Desktop".

Let me know if your FPS go back to normal, if not then :

3) Under Prepar3d settings, enable the "Black-out Desktop".

Retest if your FPS go back to normal.

Please note that if you use FSLabs Airbus, you cannot perform this test as FSLabs always reset the full screen optimisation settings back to enabled.

The reason for this test is because Lockheed Martin reverted the WPF rendermode back to SoftwareOnly as per users request since some users were having difficulties with some 3rd party recording software and REShade, so I want to confirm if the settings above are having a conflict with the new WPF rendermode configured by LM causing an adverse effect with P3D 4.5 new features.

Many thanks
Simbol

Edited by simbol
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12 minutes ago, simbol said:

Dear All,

Can someone with the confirmed 30% performance drop FPS issue please try the following test:

1) Right click your Prepar3D.exe V 4.5, find the compatibility tab and set "disable full screen optimisation" 

2) Under Prepar3d settings, disable the "Black-out Desktop".

Let me know if your FPS go back to normal, if not then :

3) Under Prepar3d settings, enable the "Black-out Desktop".

Retest if your FPS go back to normal.

Please note that if you use FSLabs Airbus, you cannot perform this test as FSLabs always reset the full screen optimisation settings back to enabled.

The reason for this test is because Lockheed Martin reverted the WPF rendermode back to SoftwareOnly as per users request since some users were having difficulties with some 3rd party recording software and REShade, so I want to confirm if the settings above are having a conflict with the new WPF rendermode configured by LM causing an adverse effect with P3D 4.5 new features.

Many thanks
Simbol

I had that disabled anyway even in 4.4. Now I didn’t try black out desktop though

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Navigator43 said:

I had that disabled anyway even in 4.4. Now I didn’t try black out desktop though

I'm sorry if I sound edgy, but then why don't you try that first and then report back before answering, just like it was asked?

Edited by Farlis
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1 minute ago, supersym said:

Not 100% there yet, they are working now with us now via the internal LM beta forums.

The tests I requested above a couple of minutes ago still stand, there is a reason why I asked..

Thanks everyone.

Regards,
Simbol

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1 minute ago, simbol said:

Not 100% there yet, they are working now with us now via the internal LM beta forums.

The tests I requested above a couple of minutes ago still stand, there is a reason why I asked..

Thanks everyone.

Regards,
Simbol

Will do as soon as I'm back from work.

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From the LM forum: “

Hello Everyone,

We identified and found a fix for an issue that can affect framerates in some use cases in v4.5. We are currently working with various third parties on some additional reports and will release a hotfix in the next couple of weeks. Thanks again for the reports and detailed information. Every little bit helps when tracking something down like this and we appreciate your time in helping us solve the problem. Thanks again for your support!

Regards,
Rob McCarthy

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Got my frames back in v4.5!

It is kind of strange but maybe it works for some one with fps lose like me. Just a hypothesis and probably a false positive. Unticking the "Black-out Desktop" and changing graphics settings maybe causing this problem.
I did now several tests with 4.4 and 4.5 and had that issue with low frames and sometimes autogen popins, black airport textures, even with vanilla settings ( by vanilla I mean the standard settings after deleting the p3d.cfg). I could not get persistent results until yesterday. Since yesterday I only updated from 4.3 to 4.4 and after that to 4.5 with client, content and scenery update.
In some occasions after updating to 4.5 again, I got the same frames as in 4.4 (maybe 5 frames less, hard to tell) for one flight. After that it deteriorated and stayed that way, even when I changed the settings back or deleted the p3d.cfg. I uninstalled 4.5 client. Installed 4.4, tested, uninstalled the 4.4 client and reinstalled 4.5. Did that nearly a dozen times. The only thing that was constant was when ever I did not unticke "Black-out Desktop" I had one or two test flights without autogen or frame issues.

Encouraged by that I wiped p3d completely. Used the fullinstaller and did not touch the "Black-out Desktop" option.

1. Installed 4.5 after wipe and restart
2. Started p3d and started vanilla and default flight
3. Ended p3d and restarted the PC
4. Started p3d and now gradually adjusting the settings
5. Locked frames at 50 fps in p3d

On my test track KFHR to KRNT on runway 50 fps and no significant drop under 40 on approach.

Latest: Windows 10 ultimate updates, latest nvidia driver, "disable fullscreen optimization" and "run as admin" in the compatibility tab active. 1080 gtx, speedtrees off

The "Black-out Desktop" does not black out the desktop every time. Some times it does after moving the scenery selection window. Before the reinstall I always unticked the blackout function and I guess most of the multiscreen users did so too.

Tomorrow I have a day off and will try to brake it again.

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1 hour ago, Farlis said:

I'm sorry if I sound edgy, but then why don't you try that first and then report back before answering, just like it was asked?

Lol just tried it didn’t work Mr. edgy lol

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20 minutes ago, kristolz said:

From the LM forum: “

Hello Everyone,

We identified and found a fix for an issue that can affect framerates in some use cases in v4.5. We are currently working with various third parties on some additional reports and will release a hotfix in the next couple of weeks. Thanks again for the reports and detailed information. Every little bit helps when tracking something down like this and we appreciate your time in helping us solve the problem. Thanks again for your support!

Regards,
Rob McCarthy

Awesome 

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Great news now we can all settle down haha

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I upgraded from 4.4 to 4.5 and followed the P3D Guide deleting the Prepar3d.cfg file as recommended (kept a copy first) and discovered that the newly generated .cfg file was smaller than the older one (kept copy). I had not ever edited this old .cfg file, as was as generated. When I compared the new files in an editor many lines in the new one were missing.

I am suggesting this might be the reason some are having problems. I have Orbx Global, Vector and NA installed and have no FPS reduction. I am using an i7-6400, 16Gb Ram, GTX-1060 (6Gb) and SSD.

Just something to consider.

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1 hour ago, simbol said:

Dear All,

Can someone with the confirmed 30% performance drop FPS issue please try the following test:

1) Right click your Prepar3D.exe V 4.5, find the compatibility tab and set "disable full screen optimisation" 

2) Under Prepar3d settings, disable the "Black-out Desktop".

Let me know if your FPS go back to normal, if not then :

3) Under Prepar3d settings, enable the "Black-out Desktop".

Retest if your FPS go back to normal.

Please note that if you use FSLabs Airbus, you cannot perform this test as FSLabs always reset the full screen optimisation settings back to enabled.

The reason for this test is because Lockheed Martin reverted the WPF rendermode back to SoftwareOnly as per users request since some users were having difficulties with some 3rd party recording software and REShade, so I want to confirm if the settings above are having a conflict with the new WPF rendermode configured by LM causing an adverse effect with P3D 4.5 new features.

Many thanks
Simbol

Hello Simbol

I did the tests from 1 to 3 as described.
The FPS were bad as before.

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