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Slow to Climb?

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This means that wall and ramp are simulated as well? That's great news.

Btw, concerning the IAS mode for climb, are you talking about the Carenado ATR or RW ATR ops?

 

Edited by FDEdev

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Hey @46Pilot great explanation thank you very much.  May I ask in what situation would you use MCT.  I find that she can still overspeed with everything set for cruise (PL white notch, CL Auto, Power management CRZ)....However if I switch to MCT she'll hold a steady cruise speed for me. Is this an allowed use for it?

 

Edited by Novej757

Jevon 

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Hi everyone,

@FDEdev don't you want to fly the ATR in the sim like in the real life?

@Novej757 MCT is not used in normal operation, only in some abnormal cases, where the QRH tell you to do so. With PL in the notch, CL on AUTO, PWR MGT on CRZ is possible to go over the maximum speed in real life if you fly at low altitudes. From what I've seen, if you fly at FL150 or 160, you reach a speed of 220 kts, so there are high chances of going over if a lower altitude is selected. The ATR 42 is most comfortable at FL180, where it has the biggest TAS and we tend to look for this FL if possible. Another good thing is we receive a lots of shortcuts, because there are few aircraft flying so low 😄

Edited by 46Pilot
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9 minutes ago, 46Pilot said:

 

@FDEdev don't you want to fly the ATR in the sim like in the real life?

? Don't understand this question. Do you fly the ATR 42 IRL? I was asking because I haven't come across any airplane IRL which does a nice climb/descent in speed mode due to the constant VS/pitch changes, and/or hunting to keep the set IAS. It's usually not very convenient for the passengers.

I don't understand why you climb in speed mode and descend in VS mode.

@Novej757, MCT is usually used in the single engine case where you need the highest climb performance.

Notice that prop RPM is at 100% in this case and hence a very low prop blade pitch, a setting that's most effective at low speed.

 

Edited by FDEdev
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Yes, I do. It is safer and better to climb using IAS mode. Indeed, the aircraft will hunt the selected speed, but instead there's no worry about stalling the airplane. If you would be using the VS to climb, the airplane will maintain the respective VS regardless of the speed. There are some occasions where we use VS for climbing, for example a desired shallow climb (cruise climb, high speed climb) when running behind the schedule.

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1 hour ago, 46Pilot said:

Hi everyone,

@FDEdev don't you want to fly the ATR in the sim like in the real life?

@Novej757 MCT is not used in normal operation, only in some abnormal cases, where the QRH tell you to do so. With PL in the notch, CL on AUTO, PWR MGT on CRZ is possible to go over the maximum speed in real life if you fly at low altitudes. From what I've seen, if you fly at FL150 or 160, you reach a speed of 220 kts, so there are high chances of going over if a lower altitude is selected. The ATR 42 is most comfortable at FL180, where it has the biggest TAS and we tend to look for this FL if possible. Another good thing is we receive a lots of shortcuts, because there are few aircraft flying so low 😄

Ahhh that would explain it flying between ATL and BHM i only got up to 14000....So I need to climb a little higher and no MCT got it!

This plane is surprisingly done very well.....Now if we can get Hotel mode modeled 😳


Jevon 

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Hotel mode is modeled, check this topic, I've already explained what's needed for the prop brake to be engaged.

 

 

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1 hour ago, 46Pilot said:

It is safer and better to climb using IAS mode. Indeed, the aircraft will hunt the selected speed, but instead there's no worry about stalling the airplane. If you would be using the VS to climb, the airplane will maintain the respective VS regardless of the speed. 

I also used to fly Dash7s and 8s for a company for a few years which had the weird 'logic' that climbing in VS isn't 'safe'.

Fact is that if you aren't flying cargo IAS mode is not passenger minded and the plane can stall in speed mode in turbulent weather as well 😉

 

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I will not start a discussion based on your reply, but you are wrong. Climbing speed is way above stalling speed. If it is really turbulent, you shouldn't be there, in first place. Second, if you consider that the autopilot cannot maintain a safe range of speed, you can choose to climb in pitch mode until turbulence become less bumpy. In icing condition, IAS mode is the only one to be used for climbing.

Edited by 46Pilot

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7 minutes ago, 46Pilot said:

Climbing speed is way above stalling speed. If it is really turbulent, you shouldn't be there, in first place. Second, if you consider that the autopilot cannot maintain a safe range of speed, you can choose to climb in pitch mode until turbulence become less bumpy. In icing condition, IAS mode is the only one to be used for climbing.

What do you mean with 'If it is really turbulent, you shouldn't be there, in first place'. That's a strange and dangerously unrealistic POV. 

I haven't met a pilot who can precisely forecast turbulence?!?

Pitch mode is better or more 'safe' than VS? Since when? In both cases your ATR will stall if you maintain the same pitch/VS for too long.

I've even had a heavy 767 almost stall in FLCH mode during climb. As an airline pilot you simply have to constantly monitor what your airplane is doing when the AP is flying and you have take over yourself when necessary, regardless in which mode the AP is in.

 

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Correct, you can't precisely forecast it, but I was thinking about severe turbulence which can lead to loss of control, judging by what you said. Could be my mistake for not being too clear.

Anyway, I don't know what type of aircraft are you flying in real life, if flying is your job, but for the ATR, a pitch of approx. 4-5 degrees is sufficient to cope with the temporary situation, to have a safe speed for climbing and a rate of climb between 500-1000 FPM. This will help you to go through the turbulent area without large pitch changes or loss of airspeed, thus maintaining also a "decent comfort" onboard until things get easier.

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So are you saying takeoff is performed at 68 percent torque ?

Seems very low.

Some guy was saying CLs should be max and takeoff torque should be in the yellow zone.... some 90 percent.

I'm inclined to believe that the middle PL notch is for cruising only.

Edited by GeeBee

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53 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

So are you saying takeoff is performed at 68 percent torque ?

No. He didn't. Read again. He wrote 65-68 degrees, that's the PL angle, not torque.  Torque should be 90% and prop RPM 100%.

There is no 'middle' notch since there's only one notch.

Edited by FDEdev

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Correct, 65-68 degrees of PL. In real life, you feel the notch when reached, it's like a gate, something like that... CL on max could be on 42-300/72-200 series, there is a different engine control, but not anymore valid for the 500 series.

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Im loving all these threads with all this info @46Pilot is providing us on the ATR.  I didnt realise its throttle system was so Airbus like.  

I'm still stuck on Hotel mode. (Mind you I haven't tried yet)  I noticed in the other thread you said:

"Prop brake engagement procedure is:

1. Gust lock - ON

2. Condition Lever - FUEL SO or FTR position

3. Blue Hydraulic Pressure - Available

NOTE: If you don't have any engine started, you have to press the AUX HYD PUMP button, located on the pedestal, to have blue hydraulic pressure. If you have one engine running, you don't have to press it, because the aux hyd pump is already engaged in single engine ops.

4. Prop Brake Switch - Select ON.

After all of this, make sure you have prop brake light on. There are two locations where you can find this information: next to the prop brake switch and onthe MEMO Panel, located on the center panel, under TRIM Indicator."

So if I have no engines running I should first engage gust lock, press AUX HYDRO on pedestal, propbrake switch to on, look for prop brake light then......? (or are these out of order too)

Do I hit the engine start button?  Is it number 2?  Will the engine start with its CL in Fuel SO

I'm trying to engage Hotel mode without ever spinning the prop. Thanks for the help.  


Jevon 

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