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Slow to Climb?

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50 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

1. One video showed takeoff on a very steep runway, at altitude, and they rammed both CL and PLs to max.

2. giving around 100% on takeoff, and around 80 to 89% torque for climb and cruise.

3. Of course extreme conditions where max power is needed

1. Definitely not on a FADEC equipped ATR! 

2. Again and again, no.  Climb (and at lower altitudes cruise) torque is well above 100% and TO = 90%

3. E.g. windshear recovery, but there's NO 'extreme takeoff' where you need max power.

Edited by FDEdev

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@FDEdev leave him alone, it doesn't worth to waste your time with him if it's clear that he doesn't want to learn something and he is trying to convince himself that he is wright.

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I've seen much worse than GeeBee in the last decades and at least he's trying to understand and he tries to learn from various videos and manuals 🙂

There are even people here who are claiming to be FIs and they write incredible nonsense. 

Last but not least, don't forget that you are in a relaxed Carenado, not in a A2A or PMDG forum.

 

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For the love of mike, watch the RW videos instead of thinking you know it all.

And spell correctly, if you want to be taken seriously.

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2 hours ago, FDEdev said:

1. Definitely not on a FADEC equipped ATR! 

2. Again and again, no.  Climb (and at lower altitudes cruise) torque is well above 100% and TO = 90%

3. E.g. windshear recovery, but there's NO 'extreme takeoff' where you need max power.

Wrong on 2 and 3.

And FADEC, no but I corrected it to Performance management which is the same sort of thing.

You are splitting hairs.

Take off is only at the red line if you are at high altitude or on short runway.

Go and watch the videos before you pontificate. I bet you havem't watched one of them.

I'm off to lie down.

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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.theairlinepilots.com/forumarchive/membersupload/Performance_Manual_-_ATR.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjd3s2UlO7hAhX2SxUIHdZOBPQQFjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0xF8kk9nuWde_zQyC0WxD0

Read it and weep.

Official info from ATR.

Max takeoff is 104, usual and preferred is around 89%

Climb out is around mid 80s.

High alt, uphill, as in one of my above video links, max out to ramp, at around 108.

Carenado have actually modelled it correctly.

 

Oh dear. I've known so many....... blah.

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Please check this document and we will talk after that. You will be looking for "42 PEC" (with blue background) actions. You will also find the differences in operation for all types of the ATR. This is the document underlying daily operation under normal conditions.

https://www.theairlinepilots.com/forumarchive/atr/fctm-norm-proc.pdf

PS: What kind of operations do you want to do, only "Hot and high"?

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@46Pilot, I do have to apologize to you. I really underestimated GeeBees arrogance, inability to read performance tables and to believe anything RW airline pilots are trying to tell him. What a …..

Going to ignore him as well from now on. Guys like GeeBee are the reason why I'm trying to refrain from posting as much as possible.

over and out (at least) in this thread.

Edited by FDEdev

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Performance limitations of the ATR x-500 engines states....

1. "100% Prop speed (at TO setting in the notch) = max of 90% TQ"

And .... THIS SHOULD ONLY BE USED FOR 5 MINS MAX.

 

2. The MCT setting should only be used if engine out occurs.

In climb, (CL in auto and CLB set, the NP (i.e. prop speed) goes to c 82% (that means circa) ... and the TQ max is 97%.

3. Using a torque above this, is only used at high altitude or temperatures, (as in the video with the sloping runway !!! Yes, the one you clearly haven't watched... as you don't need to as you gave all the answers).

 

As for arrogance, OMG.....  'My' arrogance ?

I have shown you videos of different SOPs, but you deny these exist.

I have shown you ATR manuals that explain that normal takoffs are derated, with higher TQs reserved for high temps and altitudes, or engine outs.

It is your refusal to read, learn and understand, that is arrogant - like Trump, who knows better than scientists AND the CIA, yet has never read a book since college (self admitted).

THAT'S arrogance.

 

I am unsubscribing from this post as there is no reasoning with unreasonable people.

Goodbye, farewell and enjoy the new 1.1 update - the lights still don't work properly !

 

Edited by GeeBee

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https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlTIEjrYOEqigrFY7dMfD_PH4zlnQw

And this for climb at 82%.

There are only 2 settings for prop speed, and the 72 and 42 500 both have the same engines.

And finally - I almost predict what you are you gonna say now - these are from Limitation charts, not performance.... and yes I can read graphs - oh believe me !

Edited by GeeBee

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Hey @46Pilot Lets say you are down at 9000ft and ATC tells you to maintain 210kts, how would you maintain that speed or any speed ATC gives you at the lower altitudes with the PLs in the white notch, CLs in Auto and I'm guessing Power Management still in CRZ withoutt overspeeding? Thanks.


Jevon 

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To 46 pilot:

Thank you very much for your insights into this matter and for your general flying tips.I am an (amateur) real life pilot and I have no doubts that

your words on the PL white notch position are indeed correct.When in this position ,the airplane seems to behave as she should behave for this

type of turboprop.Ever since I applied this,the airplane seems to have the correct speeds and engine temperatures.

I do have one question:when on the ground after landing and with the right engine in hotel mode,if I then want to shut down the right engine,do

I take it out of hotel mode first (letting the props rotate),or do I shut the right engine down in hotel mode?The manual seems to have nothing to 

say on this matter.Thanks for any replies!

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4 hours ago, Novej757 said:

Hey @46Pilot Lets say you are down at 9000ft and ATC tells you to maintain 210kts, how would you maintain that speed or any speed ATC gives you at the lower altitudes with the PLs in the white notch, CLs in Auto and I'm guessing Power Management still in CRZ withoutt overspeeding? Thanks.

You can anytime reduce the power levers out of the notch to keep the speed under the limit. Also, from top of descend all the way down to the runway, we continuously keep the hand on the levers and adjust them to keep as much as possible a constant speed. Also, for the airplanes with older engines or with engines approaching the end of time (they need to be replaced), usually the ITT tends to go over the limit, also when cruising we reduce a little bit the power levers, to keep the ITT a little bit cooler.

Edited by 46Pilot
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4 hours ago, theophile said:

To 46 pilot:

Thank you very much for your insights into this matter and for your general flying tips.I am an (amateur) real life pilot and I have no doubts that

your words on the PL white notch position are indeed correct.When in this position ,the airplane seems to behave as she should behave for this

type of turboprop.Ever since I applied this,the airplane seems to have the correct speeds and engine temperatures.

I do have one question:when on the ground after landing and with the right engine in hotel mode,if I then want to shut down the right engine,do

I take it out of hotel mode first (letting the props rotate),or do I shut the right engine down in hotel mode?The manual seems to have nothing to 

say on this matter.Thanks for any replies!

It doesn't matter. The role of hotel mode it's to provide electricity and air for conditioning. For example, in real life, you land at an airport and taxi to the parking position. There, you engage prop brake and continue to use the engine no 2 in hotel mode until the GPU is connected to the aircraft, after that you can shutdown the engine. There is no reason to release the parking brake now. At startup, you will need to use the hotel mode, because the ground crew have to disconnect the GPU before propeller rotation, to take the chocks etc. All of this in hotel mode. After everyone is away from the aircraft, only then you can release the propeller brake. Rarely, after shutting down the engine with prop brake engaged, we release the prop brake for the maintenance personnel to work something at the engine and after they finish we re-engage the propeller brake for the following engine start. I hope it's clear now.

Long story short, it doesn't matter, you can do it however you want, but there is no reason to release the propeller brake before engine shutdown.

Edited by 46Pilot

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