40 minutes ago, GEKtheReaper said:

Hallo Thomas @GarminFlyer,

@urmel81 did Copy/Paste hes first message that he has sent to Stefan. I can't tell if he modified it but I trust him until the oposite is proven. Also in he's Copy/Pasted message you can indeed find the wording "No Go's"...   

Given the fact that he ownes sceneries from Pilots and in the very start of he's message towards the DEV's he talks positive about them, I read that "No Go" as a personal opinion and no ofence. Stefan could have add in he's message that in the current config there is no way you can remove static ACFT but they are working on the config panel.

Leaving the question unaswered and stating that a Config panel is in the making, does not realy help TODAY. It could be that the panel is released in 2 Years from now....(this is far fetched).

Hi Gerald,

Urmel posted translated text, and it seems badly translated:

<<Sorry, that looks cruel, especially with the nonexistent seasons.>>

A lot can get lost in translation, especially the subtle nuance of being polite and rude.

Urmel is obviously on a mission to anger and upset the developer, as messages like this do nothing positive:

<<I think we won't hear anything more from Pilot's. Really bad support from these guys. 

They are working on Santiago, another airport without support I think.>>

In fact I hope Stefan from PILOT'S is reading this and if he is, I would suggest to Stefan to revoke Urmel's license with a full refund. Nobody needs customers like Urmel who lurk in a forum with a really bad attitude and do nothing positive.

In fact I see a lot of people here with a bad attitude and being very disrespectful, the member called tooting is also one of them.

Thomas

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 20197 yr by GarminFlyer

Its not hard is it.  I'll do some schooling here.  Its called the sandwich theory and its taught to many many companies and it dates back from way back when, 

its basically a way to say no to someone nicely.  It's very simple you have a sandwich 🥪 Consisting of 2 pieces of bread and the filling in the middle. 

The filling in middle is the meat of the issue (pun included) which is normally a question or a complaint. the bread on either side is padding out the meat. 

So the first piece of bread is an understanding of the issue, and an acknowledgement.  Something like this.. 

 

'Hi Pete, 

First of all many thanks for buying our product and for taking the time to email us. ' 

 

 

There you go nice and simple.... Nothing too fancy.. 

Then you get to the tricky part.. The issue,the problem/complaint. 

So here I would of put something Along the lines of... 

' Regarding your question of how the remove the static Ryanair 737s at LEAM,  this unfortunately isn't possible due to XYZ because of ABC' 

 

You keep the XYZ and ABC easy to understand, short to the point and not patronising, hence the word 'unfortunately' in the sentence. It softens the blow a bit. 

Now... At this point he could sign off the email  with out the last piece of 🥪 bread.  That is what alot of people would do, but you can't, thats going to leave a bad taste in the customers mouth. ( I've seen this all too often with software developers who spend alot of time in front of screens and not with people learning customer service skills or interpersonal skills) 

So what you do its you insert the last piece of bread into the sentence at the .   Something like.... 

'We have taken on feedback from our customers and in the future, we shall be designing a new control panel for LEAM where you can customise how you want the product to look according to your preferences.' 

 

Now there that makes the customer feel a bit special because he thinks his email is going to make them make a control panel. 

Then finally you need a plate and a napkin for the sandwich to make it look presentable you finish the email with.... 

 

' Finally we would like to thank you again for your purchase and understanding. 

We shall be emailing all our customers when the control panel update has been released.

Please feel free to contact us with any issues you may have. 

Many thanks and kind regards Joe Bloggs'

 

 

You see its so so so simple to do basic customer service, I whipped that up in less than 5 minutes and the dude from Pilots could cut and paste that to all his customers questions. 

The guy above is right.  The customer is King.   He puts the food on your table, he pays your mortgage. 

Are they annoying as hell? .  Absolutely,

do you want to punch them? absolutely 

Do they ask the same question over and over again?  Absolutely 

And is it your job as a someone who is selling a product or involved in a product to just get on with it and smile go through the motions and deal with the customers even though they are idiots, absolutely.  They pay your wages. 

The cabin crew on your flight when they wheel that trolley 🛒 and ask you 'drink from the bar sir?'   they get asked 50 times a day 'what have you got' 

It's infuriating, but it's the job, so you reply back politly 'wines,beers, juices etc etc'.    You really want to reply back 'bugger off, its a bar what do you think Ive got'   but they pay your wages so you smile sweetly back and just tell them what's in the bar. 

In my job I get asked the same 2 questions over and over again

A.  'any idea when the aircraft will be servicable'.

B. 'is there another crew on standby that can take it once its fixed' 

Id love to answer

A. 'yes I'll get my magic engineering crystal ball.. Exactly 87 minute's captain' 

 

B. 'yes lots, but we are saving them for when something really goes bad later on, stop moaning do you job and just fly the thing when it's fixed like your supposed to do:

Obviously I can't, I'd get sacked very quickly but the crew are my customers unfortunately and I'm paid to deal with them.. I find if your polite, and give them correct info, and show a bit of empathy they will do the duty no problem, if you're a knob they won't. 

 

The same way Mr Stephan from Pilots has to learn to deal with annoying customers and not just refuse to answer simple emails, Facebook messages etc etc

Finally a perfect example is how Activesky deal with customers, quick, prompt, polite and efficient. 

Stefhan from pilots is an excellent example of how not too. 

 

Best wishes to all 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 20197 yr by tooting

Copy to several developers that shall remain nameless.

Pete @tooting, excellent post. Even I learnd something from it.

Thomas @GarminFlyer, sorry to say but to revoke ones license due to something that might be interpreted as rude....no more words mate.

18 minutes ago, tooting said:

Its not hard is it.  I'll do some schooling here.  Its called the sandwich theory and its taught to many many companies and it dates back from way back when, 

its basically a way to say no to someone nicely.  It's very simple you have a sandwich 🥪 Consisting of 2 pieces of bread and the filling in the middle. 

The filling in middle is the meat of the issue (pun included) which is normally a question or a complaint. the bread on either side is padding out the meat. 

So the first piece of bread is an understanding of the issue, and an acknowledgement.  Something like this.. 

 

'Hi Pete, 

First of all many thanks for buying our product and for taking the time to email us. ' 

 

 

There you go nice and simple.... Nothing too fancy.. 

Then you get to the tricky part.. The issue,the problem/complaint. 

So here I would of put something Along the lines of... 

' Regarding your question of how the remove the static Ryanair 737s at LEAM,  this unfortunately isn't possible due to XYZ because of ABC' 

 

You keep the XYZ and ABC easy to understand, short to the point and not patronising, hence the word 'unfortunately' in the sentence. It softens the blow a bit. 

Now... At this point he could sign off the email  with out the last piece of 🥪 bread.  That is what alot of people would do, but you can't, thats going to leave a bad taste in the customers mouth. ( I've seen this all too often with software developers who spend alot of time in front of screens and not with people learning customer service skills or interpersonal skills) 

So what you do its you insert the last piece of bread into the sentence at the .   Something like.... 

'We have taken on feedback from our customers and in the future, we shall be designing a new control panel for LEAM where you can customise how you want the product to look according to your preferences.' 

 

Now there that makes the customer feel a bit special because he thinks his email is going to make them make a control panel. 

Then finally you need a plate and a napkin for the sandwich to make it look presentable you finish the email with.... 

 

' Finally we would like to thank you again for your purchase and understanding. 

We shall be emailing all our customers when the control panel update has been released.

Please feel free to contact us with any issues you may have. 

Many thanks and kind regards Joe Bloggs'

 

 

You see its so so so simple to do basic customer service, I whipped that up in less than 5 minutes and the dude from Pilots could cut and paste that to all his customers questions. 

The guy above is right.  The customer is King.   He puts the food on your table, he pays your mortgage. 

Are they annoying as hell? .  Absolutely,

do you want to punch them? absolutely 

Do they ask the same question over and over again?  Absolutely 

And is it your job as a someone who is selling a product or involved in a product to just get on with it and smile go through the motions and deal with the customers even though they are idiots, absolutely.  They pay your wages. 

The cabin crew on your flight when they wheel that trolley 🛒 and ask you 'drink from the bar sir?'   they get asked 50 times a day 'what have you got' 

It's infuriating, but it's the job, so you reply back politly 'wines,beers, juices etc etc'.    You really want to reply back 'bugger off, its a bar what do you think Ive got'   but they pay your wages so you smile sweetly back and just tell them what's in the bar. 

In my job I get asked the same 2 questions over and over again

A.  'any idea when the aircraft will be servicable'.

B. 'is there another crew on standby that can take it once its fixed' 

Id love to answer

A. 'yes I'll get my magic engineering crystal ball.. Exactly 87 minute's captain' 

 

B. 'yes lots, but we are saving them for when something really goes bad later on, stop moaning do you job and just fly the thing when it's fixed like your supposed to do:

Obviously I can't, I'd get sacked very quickly but the crew are my customers unfortunately and I'm paid to deal with them.. I find if your polite, and give them correct info, and show a bit of empathy they will do the duty no problem, if you're a knob they won't. 

 

The same way Mr Stephan from Pilots has to learn to deal with annoying customers and not just refuse to answer simple emails, Facebook messages etc etc

Finally a perfect example is how Activesky deal with customers, quick, prompt, polite and efficient. 

Stefhan from pilots is an excellent example of how not too. 

 

Best wishes to all

All that for $30.

Hi Thomas.

@GarminFlyer

Please have a careful read through this topic. Please allow me to explain.

I will walk you through it, the first post points out he asked Pilot 3x for help and got none. Also tried though FB, Also he point out the scenery is really nice.

The second post express he also found Pilots support do be lacking also note guenseli and pracines agreed with his statement.

pscharff also points out he contacted support 2x

Ols500 also points out he finds support not very good.

tooting also then points out that his email has gone unanswered even from his works email.

So that adds to a lot of support questions and none answered.

You say people here are "disrespectful" well from a customers point of getting no replies from support is also very disrespectful/rude.

Also the question manly here was how to remove the Ryanair. In the time the developer took to reply he could have explained if it was possible or not, thus answering the support questions asked. But he did not.

Also, are you being "respectful" to anyone here or just calling people "disrespectful" for not accepting that a control panel will one day be available! 

I agree there is a way and a manner asking for support but when you get no replies at all and repeatedly get none then you tent to feel like people have expressed here.

Stefan said "I have to say that I’m very disappointed at your efforts to publicly shame our company!" I would say this is selective reading and totally disregards all the other report of requests for support and them getting none.

Lastly, look how many likes Pete got above for how to deal with people, I have a shop, all he says is true. 

Have a lovely Day. Best wishes Thomas.

 

Edited May 9, 20197 yr by Nyxx

2 minutes ago, DJJose said:

All that for $30.

$30 X ? =

 

Behaviour breeds behaviour. 

Many years ago I used to work with a guy in easyjet when I was in ops he'd sit opposite me in crewing, he was awful with his telephone manner to the crew

He would say stuff like... 

' oh sick again are you,  ill have to cover your duty then' 

'fatigued on day one, I'm sure you are.  I'll cover the duty then' 

'not willing to work  5 minutes into a day off, OK we' ll let the 180 passengers Know'

The guy was a nightmare when it came to basic customer service and got put on proformance review in the end. 

All had to do was politly say 'ok no problem, sorry to hear that',  and then slag them off after he had put the phone down. 

A week later he'd be asking them to operate into discretion, they all tell him no straight off the bat.  Behaviour breeds behaviour. 

Point I'm making here is if you treat customers well even they will come back again and again 

Edited May 9, 20197 yr by tooting

2 hours ago, tooting said:

The same way Mr Stephan from Pilots has to learn to deal with annoying customers and not just refuse to answer simple emails, Facebook messages etc etc

Finally a perfect example is how Activesky deal with customers, quick, prompt, polite and efficient. 

Stefhan from pilots is an excellent example of how not too.

Hi Pete,

Absolute rubbish, I have all of PILOT'S products other than their LEAM scenery and I've never had any issue with their support. I've had direct email contact with Stefan regarding their weather software, as well as their mesh, never had any issues, he's extremely knowledgeable and always to the point, his support has been top notch at all times. I have friends who also would say nothing bad about PILOT'S products and support.

I can fully understand that someone like Urmel, who attempts to lecture a developer, is just rude and a disgrace in trying to publicly shame a company, and continues to do so along with people like you, who seem to have nothing better to do in life. I mean who in their right mind writes to a developer telling them their scenery has some No Go's and then is surprised to not get an answer, then subsequently attempts to discredit the developer here. If it was me, I would have revoked his license and given him a full refund, you really don't need customers like that.

Thomas

 

 

Edited May 9, 20197 yr by GarminFlyer

2 hours ago, DJJose said:

All that for $30.

Well said!

I think many here forget that most customers buy from Simmarket and other stores instead of supporting the developer directly and buying at the developer's store directly. Simmarket and most stores take a 30% or so cut from the developer for doing nothing more than facilitating a transaction and offering some storage space. Maybe they should be doing more for the funds they get through their shop, like offering support in the future?

I mean imagine buying a BMW from a dealership and then contacting BMW directly for support, which is essentially what is happening here,

Thomas

 

Edited May 9, 20197 yr by GarminFlyer

1 hour ago, tooting said:

Point I'm making here is if you treat customers well even they will come back again and again 

Pete, you're completely clueless about the flightsim software market, how much is expected and how very little small developers like PILOT'S earn. I'd say well over 90% of all customers expect top quality scenery with top level support at a budget price.

Thomas

57 minutes ago, GarminFlyer said:

Well said!

I think many here forget that most customers buy from Simmarket and other stores instead of supporting the developer directly and buying at the developer's store directly. Simmarket and most stores take a 30% or so cut from the developer for doing nothing more than facilitating a transaction and offering some storage space. Maybe they should be doing more for the funds they get through their shop, like offering support in the future?

I mean imagine buying a BMW from a dealership and then contacting BMW directly for support, which is essentially what is happening here,

Thomas

 

Well with Audi you can do just that if you are not happy with your dealership you can ring Audi direct and they will deal with you and your dealership directly. With any problem you have. Its called Customer care. I would think BMW are the same customer satisfaction is very high on their list of properties as the last thing they wish is someone criticizing their brand. They will go out of there way to help ...well I know Audi do. So your point is?

Edited May 9, 20197 yr by Nyxx

53 minutes ago, GarminFlyer said:

Pete, you're completely clueless about the flightsim software market, how much is expected and how very little small developers like PILOT'S earn. I'd say well over 90% of all customers expect top quality scenery with top level support at a budget price.

Thomas

Sorry Thomas, but it would appear to be you who is clueless...

Sheesh...

Gent's let it go....

Thomas @GarminFlyer since you obviously had made a good experience with Pilot's, would you mind making us a favour and ask them when the Config Panel would be available and if the static ACFT could be manualy removed till it's release.

Thank you!

Thomas

Tomorrow I will fly on a virgin atlantic aircraft on holiday. 

On the aircraft people will have paid for their seats in different ways. 

1.direct sale from virgin atlantic 

2. Through virgin holidays (our own sister travel agent) that buy seats off the airline for a discount to sell holiday packages 

3. Through other travel agents such as Expedia, American express, etc etc.  They Also charge a commission on the seat sale

4. Staff travel on free tickets ( like myself) paying only the tax 

5. Free tickets for travel agent educationals etc etc 

The cabin crew on the flight will not care which of the 5 categories you fall into they will still provide excellent customer service to everyone even though the direct sale passenger has made the company the most money. (And virgin last year made a loss of 28 million) and won't ignore the pax that have booked through an agent taking commission.

The point is I couldn't give a toss how much stephan from pilots is making or not making, that's his business problem not mine.  I've bought a product, and I expect a level of support.  An answer to one of my now 6 emails is the least If I considered the guy to have any credibility. 

Neither tomorrow will any of the fare paying passengers think they should not get a meal because as a company we are losing money. 

We sell a product,  and therefore provide excellent customer service (or we go out of business) simple as that no matter how much we are making or not making as a company selling a product. 

We also don't fly passengers to Glasgow instead of Dusseldorf but that's another topic.... 

 

Edited May 9, 20197 yr by tooting