Political liveries in the library....

[Jim Young 2,356]

2 hours ago, overspeed3 said:

To paraphrase an opinion by a U.S. Supreme Court justice in the 1960's

Good memory - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobellis_v._Ohio

[Patco Lch 1,462]

1 hour ago, dave2013 said:

As much as I may disagree with someone's political beliefs, I believe it is their right to express it.  A political statement on an airline livery shouldn't be an issue really.  If you don't like it then don't fly with that airline and don't download that livery.  I surmise that the airline simply stands to benefit economically from a more integrated Europe. 

I will say one thing that may relate to the European Union, and this is not a political statement but a historical fact.  The United States was originally a union of mostly sovereign States.  In fact, each State still has its own Legislature, Executive, and Judicial System, police, and even its own military(National Guard).  Over the past 100 years, however, the national Federal Government has usurped a lot of power that the States used to have so that they have lost much of their sovereignty.  For a number of years the States weren't even allowed to set their own speed limits but had to abide by a federally mandated 55 mph limit (this was thankfully repealed in the 1990s).  The States still have their own laws, but the national government has become so large and powerful that it dominates even all 50 States combined when it comes to financial and military power.  As an example, all the State budgets combined amount to just under 2 trillion dollars, but the Federal Govt. budget is over twice that amount at 4.5 trillion. The national govt. can also run endless deficits, accumulate as much debt as it likes, and issue its own currency, but the States have to be much more careful because they are smaller and can't borrow endlessly without consequences, plus they can't issue their own currencies. 

Anyway, something to think about...

Dave

 

Thank you. Very well stated.

[HighBypass 2,339]

On 5/1/2019 at 1:51 AM, overspeed3 said:

....  I think I should take offense (or offence) at the OneWorld liveries.😏

Indeed sir. It is your right to do so. Although... we do only have the one planet (world)...

[HighBypass 2,339]

On 5/1/2019 at 4:46 PM, dave2013 said:

....the States have to be much more careful because they are smaller and can't borrow endlessly without consequences, plus they can't issue their own currencies

In a way Dave that sounds very much like our own County and Borough Councils in the UK..

 soerennielsen - A good argument.  I now see how the statement is interpreted either way. Thank you.

[ErichB 3,638]

An download of a livery to your PC will not be offensive to anyone else.  It's your choice to install it, its your PC, it's a current affair.  It harms no-one else. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by ErichB

[G-RFRY 1,706]

Would "Say no to Europe" be viewed the same!!!

[Jim Young 2,356]

4 hours ago, rjfry said:

Would "Say no to Europe" be viewed the same!!!

I do not see any reason why not.  At least for me.  Is there only one side of a view?

[sightseer 895]

On 5/1/2019 at 10:46 AM, dave2013 said:

As much as I may disagree with someone's political beliefs, I believe it is their right to express it.  A political statement on an airline livery shouldn't be an issue really.  If you don't like it then don't fly with that airline and don't download that livery.  I surmise that the airline simply stands to benefit economically from a more integrated Europe. 

I will say one thing that may relate to the European Union, and this is not a political statement but a historical fact.  The United States was originally a union of mostly sovereign States.  In fact, each State still has its own Legislature, Executive, and Judicial System, police, and even its own military(National Guard).  Over the past 100 years, however, the national Federal Government has usurped a lot of power that the States used to have so that they have lost much of their sovereignty.  For a number of years the States weren't even allowed to set their own speed limits but had to abide by a federally mandated 55 mph limit (this was thankfully repealed in the 1990s).  The States still have their own laws, but the national government has become so large and powerful that it dominates even all 50 States combined when it comes to financial and military power.  As an example, all the State budgets combined amount to just under 2 trillion dollars, but the Federal Govt. budget is over twice that amount at 4.5 trillion. The national govt. can also run endless deficits, accumulate as much debt as it likes, and issue its own currency, but the States have to be much more careful because they are smaller and can't borrow endlessly without consequences, plus they can't issue their own currencies. 

Anyway, something to think about...

Dave

 

 

its also a fact that we have a unified budget and a part of that federal budget was collected in taxes from previous generations.

[Jim Young 2,356]

We need to keep this on topic.  We are starting to slide into the area of closure.

[HighBypass 2,339]

11 hours ago, rjfry said:

Would "Say no to Europe" be viewed the same!!!

As a "political" livery, I'd say yes Ray. IMO it should be viewed the same.. insofar as should it be uploaded?

Granted, I for one would not be offended, but others may be.

Perhaps my post will be short lived, but it has (so far) sparked an interesting discussion regarding different interpretations of the same phrase (political versus tourism).

[Jim Young 2,356]

On 5/3/2019 at 2:48 PM, HighBypass said:

insofar as should it be uploaded?

AVSIM does not censor uploads like this.  AVSIM promotes free speech.  Tom allowed uploads like this.  We cannot be censoring because one or two members do not like what it says on the aircraft.  This is not free speech.  The so-called political statements on aircraft will be removed only if they violate the AVSIM Terms of Service with comments that contain pornography or does not promote a family safe environment. 

 

[Mace 1,902]

I don't mind a political livery, like for example, John McCain's E190 from his '08 campaign (I think he had an E190, if I recall...).  Regardless of what I thought about McCain, his aircraft did exist with that livery, therefore, if I decided to have it in my sim, that's great.  If I decided not to, that's great as well.

I wonder if the AVSIM Library would like a Howard Stern themed livery.  The 747 has a lot of space on its side!  Imagine the possibilities!  ToS violation in earnest!

[BlueStar 323]

When I was flying Cobras in Vietnam I was told that I couldn't paint an obscenity on the side because it might offend some of the folks  back in the "world". 🙂

I suspect it wouldn't have passed AVSIMs "freedom of speech" guidelines either. 🤣

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by BlueStar

[3Green 80]

You have to be kidding me...

"Political liveries in the library"... They "Offend" ME. 

When you’re “Offended” do you get gangrene and does your arm fall off?

People like this push one agenda, “Permitted” speech, not free speech.

He must work for CNN, or is controlled by $$$ via government, or just completely miss-informed. 

RJ

[SKEWR 364]

45 minutes ago, 3Green said:

You have to be kidding me...

"Political liveries in the library"... They "Offend" ME. 

When you’re “Offended” do you get gangrene and does your arm fall off?

People like this push one agenda, “Permitted” speech, not free speech.

He must work for CNN, or is controlled by $$$ via government, or just completely miss-informed. 

RJ

We all have individual things that offend us. Spewing "You have to be kidding me" and throwing out right wing (or left wing) tropes is the quickest way to getting ignored by the "offended" party. Others have tried to employ critical thinking in this particular thread, but incendiary posts like yours, don't help anything. Maybe the OP had an bad experience with that slogan (or not) who are you to judge? 

 

I didn't see an agenda in the post. It was too short. I see an agenda in yours, however. Thankfully, in a semi open forum where we are "permitted" to post, we can all express our views.

 

The OP may or may not work at CNN or whatever left wing, deep state conspiracy you're imagining, but you sure post like a FOX News commentator... Maybe even Brietbart...

 

We're here as well all love flight simming, not "flaming" people for posting opinions that we don't like. That said, I'll follow my own advice for the rest of this thread.