Environment Force Discussion Thread

[glider1 90]

2 hours ago, 0Artur0 said:

So, you prefer EF visuals over ENVSHADE?

Used Envshade for a long time now solely EF. So far the look of EF is at least as good probably better because there is a bit more variety but you have to initially tweak HDR levels of ground, terrain, sky, cloud and object saturation levels to your liking before hitting auto. For some reason some saturation was too extreme for me.

[brucewtb 247]

2 hours ago, glider1 said:

Used Envshade for a long time now solely EF. So far the look of EF is at least as good probably better because there is a bit more variety but you have to initially tweak HDR levels of ground, terrain, sky, cloud and object saturation levels to your liking before hitting auto. For some reason some saturation was too extreme for me.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of EF over Envshade just a bit more variety plus the hassle of more tweaking.  Still very much on the fence with EF but following developments with interest.

Bruceb

[glider1 90]

18 minutes ago, brucewtb said:

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of EF over Envshade just a bit more variety plus the hassle of more tweaking.  Still very much on the fence with EF but following developments with interest.

Bruceb

There isn't much tweaking, no more than what we do with any addon. Once done it is set and forget. All tweaking is done in sim live.

[Michael Moe 494]

3 hours ago, glider1 said:

There isn't much tweaking, no more than what we do with any addon. Once done it is set and forget. All tweaking is done in sim live.

Yep really Nice indeed but not without a performance penalty on my system. 

I have about 7-10 fps lost with this one. Maybe some functions in automate mode that i was not using before is causing this. Nothing change in overcast rendering so it must be elsewhere. Is it possible to quickly restore to P3D default or am i forced to do a client install/reinstall? 

Thanks Michael Moe 

[GEKtheReaper 364]

9 hours ago, 0Artur0 said:

So, you prefer EF visuals over ENVSHADE?

Let's say I like the idea of the dynamics in EF (all other shader mods are static). EF does a lot more then ENVSHADE does and since I can't choose what to tune in ENVSHADE (it's only ON/OFF), I use only EF at this moment.

Done 2 flights already with the new TU 1.1 and didn't have to do anything (or only one thing: reduced adaptation scalar) and pretty much liked what I've seen. My flight started at 18UTC in EDNY (near lake Constance). I have water, montaneus region, LOWI not far away and the sim looked amazing. We had some rainy weather (overcast) and piercing through the cloud layer everything changed. It felt a bit more warm an natural experiencing this with EF then ENVSHADE.

Edited May 23, 2019 by GEKtheReaper

[glider1 90]

35 minutes ago, Michael Moe said:

Yep really Nice indeed but not without a performance penalty on my system. 

I have about 7-10 fps lost with this one. Maybe some functions in automate mode that i was not using before is causing this. Nothing change in overcast rendering so it must be elsewhere. Is it possible to quickly restore to P3D default or am i forced to do a client install/reinstall? 

Thanks Michael Moe 

7-10 is a lot. Did you change back the cloud texture resolutions which by default are on 4096? That absolutely tanks performance for me with or without EF. 512 is all I can do and would have liked a 256 option.

[GSalden 4,656]

1 hour ago, GEKtheReaper said:

Let's say I like the idea of the dynamics in EF (all other shader mods are static). EF does a lot more then ENVSHADE does and since I can't choose what to tune in ENVSHADE (it's only ON/OFF), I use only EF at this moment.

Done 2 flights already with the new TU 1.1 and didn't have to do anything (or only one thing: reduced adaptation scalar) and pretty much liked what I've seen. My flight started at 18UTC in EDNY (near lake Constance). I have water, montaneus region, LOWI not far away and the sim looked amazing. We had some rainy weather (overcast) and piercing through the cloud layer everything changed. It felt a bit more warm an natural experiencing this with EF then ENVSHADE.

You are incorrect .

With PTA and TS you can use expressions which are Dynamic tweaks. So your Environment changes depending on weather , sun stength , time of day , altitude etc.

That exists for over 2 years now ...

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

 

 

 

 

3

8 hours ago, glider1 said:

Used Envshade for a long time now solely EF. So far the look of EF is at least as good probably better because there is a bit more variety but you have to initially tweak HDR levels of ground, terrain, sky, cloud and object saturation levels to your liking before hitting auto. For some reason some saturation was too extreme for me.

Why is this initial tweaking necessary? Because you don't like what REX set as initial settings or because if you don't you get the default P3D look?

Off topic: Does anybody know why are the things I quote all messed up with line brakes and some random numbers?

[GEKtheReaper 364]

21 minutes ago, GSalden said:

You are incorrect .

With PTA and TS you can use expressions which are Dynamic tweaks. So your Environment changes depending on weather , sun stength , time of day , altitude etc.

I think we were talking here mostly about ENVSHADE (but yes, I stated "all other shader mods").

I've identified a big no. of users who would like to see a life and real environment WITHOUT tuning x+1 parameters. I expect EF to deliver that! And I want to fly not to spend 1/2 Year to tweak the sim how I would imagine it to look good to me. I'm no meteorologist no'r a pilot no'r whatsoever. I look outside, fire up my sim (with real weather and so on) and expect to get the same image and feeling that I saw outside. I would like experts to take care of that for me and afterwards, if I realy want a more vibrant look, then I get on with tweaking.

I also suspect that the Expressinons you have mentioned, don't realy bring the same dynamic environment that EF does (i wrote I suspect which is not mandatory to be).

I will try to make a short excursion in SF3D and ASCA discussions. We all know that ASCA injects all of it's textures on the fly in the sim (with appropiate settings). Now how many users would be able to tell the difference if ASCA's dynamic mode is used or just one of it's themes? I for myself could not because all the themes include all cloud types (and as I mentioned, I'm no meteorologist).

Another example is SF3D before EF. How many disscusions were there about the dynamics of ASCA compared to SF3D? Again, how many users could have told you the difference if all SF3D themes would be used or just variations of ONE?

So my entire idea of EF in Automation mode is a living environment as accurate as possible to what I see outside. And by the love of God if I fly towards the sun I want to have such bloom that I need to put my sunglases on to fly ;) <-- this was a joke

[GEKtheReaper 364]

@0Artur0 Off Topic: Yea...something is wrong with quoting but seams to be related only to your posts since I only get trouble quoting you....weird...

On Topic: Looks is hardly objective 😉 (or do we all like the same tipe of women?). It can start with a badly calibrated monitor where colors are washed out up to....whatever

[Tomaz Drnovsek 440]

8 minutes ago, GEKtheReaper said:

@0Artur0 Off Topic: Yea...something is wrong with quoting but seams to be related only to your posts since I only get trouble quoting you....weird...

On Topic: Looks is hardly objective 😉 (or do we all like the same tipe of women?). It can start with a badly calibrated monitor where colors are washed out up to....whatever

Looks are subjective, sure, but as you said:

Quote

I would like experts to take care of that for me

That's why I like ENVSHADE and that's why I expected Auto mode to do somethnig along those lines.

Off topic: well, now I'm worried. Only me? word not allowed. Ok, I made this post with IE just to see if the problem persists. I'm usually using Chrome though. Mods, any ideas?

[GEKtheReaper 364]

@Lorby_SI Crazy idea man. You created a wonderfull flashlight tool i can't live without anymore.

What about a Sunglas tool to overcome the bright cockpits or the bloom issue????? 😁 Could create it with a orange, brownish, green tint and even with a small watermark like Ray-Ben and stuff.

PS: I know this is off topic but the idea just came to me after writing above post and told me: What the hell...I could patent that (unfortunately I'm not Lorby). Should be read as a small joke aside.

Edited May 23, 2019 by GEKtheReaper

[GSalden 4,656]

With PTA/TS ( + expressions ) you can see a living dynamical Environment ; like with EF ..

 

Putting EF on top of PTA/TS is tricky as you are putting shader mods on top of shader mods.

If you want to use them together you better use Automated in EF and in PTA/EF only fixed values that only differ a little from the default values. See it as finetuning.

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by GSalden

[GEKtheReaper 364]

24 minutes ago, GSalden said:

With PTA/TS ( + expressions ) you can see a living dynamical Environment ; like with EF ..

Dear Gerard, while the picture is absolutely stunning, it is a static image, a snapshot.

I'm not a PTA guru no'r want to argue with you but EF was advertised to be something completely new. Since I'm no expert, I have to trust them as I trusted them that SF3D has functionalities newer seen before in P3D. It's the first time I'm experiencing cloud forming, rain shafts, terrain and water coloring changing from Airport A to B.

If you say that PTA does the same since 2 years, I wonder why all the fuss about this product?

[GSalden 4,656]

15 minutes ago, GEKtheReaper said:

Dear Gerard, while the picture is absolutely stunning, it is a static image, a snapshot.

I'm not a PTA guru no'r want to argue with you but EF was advertised to be something completely new. Since I'm no expert, I have to trust them as I trusted them that SF3D has functionalities newer seen before in P3D. It's the first time I'm experiencing cloud forming, rain shafts, terrain and water coloring changing from Airport A to B.

If you say that PTA does the same since 2 years, I wonder why all the fuss about this product?

With PTA you had to set values , save the preset and then Apply. Then (re)start P3Dv4 to see the result,

With EF you can move sliders and see results right away. Automated mode is like using expressions but EF uses its own layer above the default shader .

P3Dv4.5 now has a Reload Shaders feature : after save with PTA/TS you press Apply and then reload Shaders in P3Dv4.5 . Immediately you will see your changes.

PTAv3 is on its way and that one will show the mods in realtime in P3Dv4.5. That is also very welcome for preset makers like me ...

See also :