vgbaron

Environment Force Discussion Thread

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14 minutes ago, bosflo said:

The clouds still "change" when flying but I don't see the groundbreaking technology for building skies unless I am doing something wrong. Has anyone else seen the difference?

The problem here may be that skies in P3D look different all the time anyway, even when you only use AS with default clouds. With ASCA clouds or SF clouds the skies may look a different kind of different but who can see the difference between different and different if both are different anyway? If you get what I'm saying. 😉

If you really want to see differences take screenshots of the same situations using different addons. I think most simmers won't be able to tell differences between various weather related addons when they simply fly around or if you show them screenshots without telling them what addons were in use.

It seriously (!!!) wouldn't surprise me if there are simmers here who are excited with and brag about how their clouds have improved after they started using AS with ASCA or EF with SF ("Things look different all the time, wow!") while all the time they are looking at the same single set of textures because they've got their addons setup wrong.. LOL!!! 😂

People often see what they want to see or expect to see. Did I mention the emperor's clothes already? 😉

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44 minutes ago, Wennerholm said:

EF works great but not in conjunction with PTA. You do not need PTA or any shader software when you have EF, IMHO.

Hi Ken,

You seem to be quite emphatic about this. I’m not suggestion you are wrong, but it would be helpful if you would relate your experiences. In my previous post I suggested this might be a possibility as REX Environment Force may be coded to use it’s own dynamic (assuming they are dynamic and applied on the fly) shader tweaks which overwrite any pre-existing tweaks applied to the shader set in ShadersHLSL. It seems unlikely that LM would share with REX the intellectual rights that would allow restoration of the default shaders in customers’ P3D installations.

So, assuming you are indeed correct, PTA, TS, etc. would become irrelevant. In fact, following this line of thought, there may not be any need to restore the default shaders prior to using REX Environment Force as EF will be applying its own tweaks over anything that has been applied before.

Please correct me if I’m wrong about this. I do not wish to give the impression that I know more than I do. Any clarification or confirmation would be helpful particularly for those of us who might prefer to stick with our static shader tweaks and, as some have experienced, risk losing the ability to restore their favoured tweaked shader set short of reinstalling the P3D Client. Not a big deal, I know, but more of a nuisance.

Regards,

Mike

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

So, assuming you are indeed correct, PTA, TS, etc. would become irrelevant. In fact, following this line of thought, there may not be any need to restore the default shaders prior to using REX Environment Force as EF will be applying its own tweaks over anything that has been applied before.

That might make sense....I got dizzy from reading about this shader business last couple of days and indeed, as suspected that could be the case. They are in the same business as everyone else, strong and reputable developer that gave us a lot's of goodies over last several years and made our SIM definitely better and more realistic. They made their shader tool and offered for sale, to me as simple as that and that's how I understood from the introduction. So it is up to all of us how we are going to use it. We all have some other "shader tools"  in our toolbox but it appears that this one is stand alone. Now, just because they mentioned that their add-on is compatible with everything on the market doesn't mean it will work good on every single PC. I am not expecting anyone from REX to confirm this but so far it looks that way and carefully used wording on their web site relating to this product tells me the same thing. Again IMHO. 

We, for some reason invested a lot of time tweaking our sims to the best of our liking with current shader enhancement add-ons, but we shouldn't defend them. Personally I am with PTA, have my issues and still tweaking every time I load  the flight. Very powerful tool but very IMHO, complicated as well as very sensitive (or totally opposite) to every small change I make. 

Today I will get EF and see what will pop on my screen once I turn my SIM on. Than I will confirm if I made right statement.

Edited by cyyzrwy24

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, xxd09 said:

Nyxx 

Where are you ?

xxd09

I got a 24-hour ban for using "X's" Sorry to anyone who that might have offended.

Two things to report.

If you find you have lost control of your lighting within the sim. In my case, nothing, even a client re-install did not put it right. Goto manual page 32, Enable manual lighting, turn it ON and you should be OK again. You will have to delete shaders etc and start again.

The second thing you all did read the manual?

Did you spot this

EF.jpg

It also says on the next page.

rex2.jpg

But you have to follow the first one, So if you're using ASP4 turn that option off.

Am still waiting for a TS fix....

Edited by Nyxx
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I do think after reading the manual a few times today that I will delete ASCA and run SF+EF with ASP4. 

I need TS for the reflections for FSL. But I do think this is going to be a huge sim changer once we can get into it and learn.

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3 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

I got a 24-hour ban for using "X's" Sorry to anyone who that might have offended.

LOL....don't worry I was banned longer than that...

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

I got a 24-hour ban for using "X's" Sorry to anyone who that might have offended.

Two things to report.

If you find you have lost control of your lighting within the sim. In my case, nothing, even a client re-install did not put it right. Goto manual page 32, Enable manual lighting, turn it ON and you should be OK again. You will have to delete shaders etc and start again.

The second thing you all did read the manual?

Did you spot this

EF.jpg

It also says on the next page.

rex2.jpg

But you have to follow the first one, So if you're using ASP4 turn that option off.

Am still waiting for a TS fix....

dump question, where do i find this "weather automation control" thing ?

Edited by RTK1972

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14 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

If you find you have lost control of your lighting within the sim. In my case, nothing, even a client re-install did not put it right. Goto manual page 32, Enable manual lighting, turn it ON and you should be OK again. You will have to delete shaders etc and start again.

Hey David - I replied to your post in the REX forum....I enabled manual lighting, closed everything out, flushed the shaders and this did not help my issue as I am still stuck with hijacked shaders when I restart P3D.  I cannot reapply any PTA presets either as EF is overriding everything even with it turned off.  Frustrating to say the least!!  I would be happy just to wipe whatever EF shaders are lingering and get back to default until they can fix the issue but I cannot...   

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Open EF in manual mode also see page 32 of the manual.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Flic1 said:

Hey David - I replied to your post in the REX forum....I enabled manual lighting, closed everything out, flushed the shaders and this did not help my issue as I am still stuck with hijacked shaders when I restart P3D.  I cannot reapply any PTA presets either as EF is overriding everything even with it turned off.  Frustrating to say the least!!  I would be happy just to wipe whatever EF shaders are lingering and get back to default until they can fix the issue but I cannot...   

This is what I did.

Turn on Enable manual lighting.

Open the sim, forget about the grey VC and anything else for a moment.

With Enable manual lighting now on go into P3D setting and turn light etc to there extremes if you see a change your OK!

Now do a P3D Client un-install and reinstall. 

Open the sim you now should be ok.

Now reset you PTA. 

Wait for a hotfix from EF.

I really hope that fixed it for you.

 

Edited by Nyxx

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

I got a 24-hour ban for using "X's" Sorry to anyone who that might have offended.

Two things to report.

If you find you have lost control of your lighting within the sim. In my case, nothing, even a client re-install did not put it right. Goto manual page 32, Enable manual lighting, turn it ON and you should be OK again. You will have to delete shaders etc and start again.

The second thing you all did read the manual?

Did you spot this

EF.jpg

It also says on the next page.

rex2.jpg

But you have to follow the first one, So if you're using ASP4 turn that option off.

Am still waiting for a TS fix....

Thank you for this as it has influenced my decision. The only thing I was interested in is EF’s weather smoothing which seems incompatible with ASP4 (which makes sense as why would it override ASP4’s own.) 

Edited by UAL4life

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7 hours ago, Daedalus said:

You are right. I have to take back my previous statement of what I understood. The solution to excess blooming is to decrease the ExposureKey in the MiniUI. This was what Reed suggested also in REX forums, keeping both HDR on. The manual description should be more clear on that HDR OFF setting. However my statement still holds that the complaints are settings problem, not a reason to bash the software from day one. 

If I decrease the ExposureKey to the minimum allowed value, the excess brightness is gone. What is left is a transition brightness, when you move from a dark scene like the pedestral part of the cockpit to the bright sky. This is what our eyes experience too, as a perfectly balanced exposure wherever we look is not what happens in real life. Everyone using a camera knows that.

Personally, I don't like the transition bloom.  I usually have it disabled in PTA or Tomato.  Dialing back the values in the UI helps, but perhaps they can allow it to be dialed back even more, because there's still a lot of bloom to my liking.  In P3D, my bloom is 0 now, and it's still too much.  I really enjoy most features of EF, but the conflict with Tomato or PTA's aircaft and VC lighting is too annoying for me to enjoy flying with it now:-(

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3 minutes ago, UAL4life said:

Thank you for this as it has influenced my decision. 

Your welcome.

The biggest problem I see is with the Enable lighting options if this is set wrong you have a huge problem to solve if you don't know the solution. Because you can do everything we normally do but you will not get back your lighting and P3D lighting will not work.

This really should come with a big warning and how to solve it within the EF manual. But the guys over at REX seem to be jumping on everything and trying there best.

But the lighting "bug" to me is a huge pitfall and needs fix so this simply can't happen.

Another small thing that I think will come in an update is you profiles etc will stick so you don't have to load every time you load the sim.

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45 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

I

EF.jpg

It also says on the next page.

rex2.jpg

But you have to follow the first one, So if you're using ASP4 turn that option off.

Am still waiting for a TS fix....

What do you mean with "first one ... off?

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Can you turn off ALL of the shader stuff from EF and just have the clouds ? 

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3 hours ago, rjfry said:

The EF manual has been available on the REX web site since last week before release to down load, I downloaded it over the weekend.

Ok, found it at the very bottom of the web page.

 

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5 minutes ago, Nemo said:

What do you mean with "first one ... off?

If your using ASP4 turn the option off.

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Can I ask what the lighting option really does?

Regards 

Simbol 

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

With Enable manual lighting now on go into P3D setting and turn light etc to there extremes if you see a change your OK!

Thanks David...sadly even with manual lighting enabled I have lost all control of my P3D HDR lighting via the menus with EF turned off and default P3D shaders restored...this is fascinating😕  I'll have to wait and see what their solution is but not sure how I am going to get back to a default state.

Edited by Flic1

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9 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

If your using ASP4 turn the option off.

Sorry, I still don't get it. What "OPTION" you speak from? I use ASP4, so I switch off what? "Enable Smoothing"

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disable hdr in Ef and enable in Prpd, see if that helps

3 minutes ago, Flic1 said:

Thanks David...sadly even with manual lighting enabled I have lost all control of my P3D lighting via the menus with EF turned off and default P3D shaders restored...this is fascinating😕  I'll have to wait and see what their solution is but not sure how I am going to get back to a default state.

 

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1 minute ago, Nemo said:

Sorry, I still don't get it. What "OPTION" you speak from? I use ASP4, so I switch off what? "Enable Smoothing"

 

15 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

If your using ASP4 turn the option off.

Stupid old man me  ... got it .

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1 minute ago, Nemo said:

Sorry, I still don't get it. What "OPTION" you speak from? I use ASP4, so I switch off what? "Enable Smoothing"

Based what I see it looks like that you have to turn off in EF.......somehow that make sense.

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If it wasn't for the noise of my graphics card I would set P3D up as moving ambient picture on my screen. Just watched the environment changing in auto mode for 30 minutes after landing.

Don't forget that REX is planning to improve EF even more. I am pretty sure the guys from TOGA Projects will get Envtex running in no time if they get the opportunity. And ENVSHADE and EF do work pretty well together.

I hope HIFI will eventually make a option for AS4 to get the weather smoothing done by EF. AS4 does a good job and so far I am pretty happy but REX did something completely new. Much better in my opinion when it comes to weather smoothing.

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In browsing this topic, more and more I'm concluding this is not a product I would need.🙂

  • I don't need to run the sim at 16X speed to watch the clouds come and go, I'm too busy flying.
  • I don't need the ability to tweak how the sky looks, we can't do that in real life, and I'm too busy flying.
  • I don't need to try and become a sky texture artist, I'm an aviator, I'm too busy flying. 

I have ASP4, ASCA, ENVTEX, ENVSHADE (like many if not most others), all running great, automatically, looking different everyday everywhere, very realistic and awesome in P3D 4.5 😁

To me this is a another case of rex coming to the game too late, and providing a product in which much of it involves time away from the cockpit....I'd rather be flying.👨‍✈️

Maybe this rex 'force' series will develop into something useful to me later.🙂

I hope that simmers who choose the rex method will enjoy it, but I can tell you, that you will enjoy it more, if you just read the manual! 😖

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