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Environment Force Discussion Thread

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10 minutes ago, kurtb said:

disable hdr in Ef and enable in Prpd, see if that helps

 

Thanks....I have HDR off in the EF UI and HDR on in P3D.....I cannot control it at all at this point.

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1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

I got a 24-hour ban for using "X's" Sorry to anyone who that might have offended.

Two things to report.

If you find you have lost control of your lighting within the sim. In my case, nothing, even a client re-install did not put it right. Goto manual page 32, Enable manual lighting, turn it ON and you should be OK again. You will have to delete shaders etc and start again.

The second thing you all did read the manual?

Did you spot this

EF.jpg

It also says on the next page.

rex2.jpg

But you have to follow the first one, So if you're using ASP4 turn that option off.

Am still waiting for a TS fix....

There is not need to use the weather smoothing with ASP4 because they have their own function.  However, it works with all other weather engines.  It does work with ASP4 but seems a little redundant.

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2 hours ago, J van E said:

Did I mention the emperor's clothes already?

You did - ad nauseum...don't like it, don't buy it.

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So how to start a flight? Nothing in the manual about it!

Start EF, then SF then P3D or the other way around. Do I need to start SF at all or does EF "know" that I have it. What settings do I need/can I adjust in SF when EF is in automated mode.

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I support REX because they have products I like or think have value and because REX is a big supporter of the FS community.  While I DON'T use live Wx I would still probably buy EF except that I will be leaving the hobby indefinitely.  

In any case people need to chill and enjoy FS.

 

Cheers
bs

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1 hour ago, simbol said:

Can I ask what the lighting option really does?

Regards 

Simbol 

I think it allows EF to change the lighting along with HDR, but I could be wrong Simbol.

58 minutes ago, Flic1 said:

Thanks David...sadly even with manual lighting enabled I have lost all control of my P3D HDR lighting via the menus with EF turned off and default P3D shaders restored...this is fascinating😕  I'll have to wait and see what their solution is but not sure how I am going to get back to a default state.

I feel for you, I really do, I wish I could help more, sorry 😞 

 

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4 minutes ago, Nemo said:

So how to start a flight? Nothing in the manual about it!

Start EF, then SF then P3D or the other way around. Do I need to start SF at all or does EF "know" that I have it. What settings do I need/can I adjust in SF when EF is in automated mode.

I suggest you start SF, start EF choose Auto or manual, make both go into your tray, Start P3D.

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8 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

I suggest you start SF, start EF choose Auto or manual, make both go into your tray, Start P3D.

REX states "If you are using Environment Force you do not need to open SF3D." in another thread.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pracines said:

In browsing this topic, more and more I'm concluding this is not a product I would need.🙂

  • I don't need to run the sim at 16X speed to watch the clouds come and go, I'm too busy flying.
  • I don't need the ability to tweak how the sky looks, we can't do that in real life, and I'm too busy flying.
  • I don't need to try and become a sky texture artist, I'm an aviator, I'm too busy flying. 

I have ASP4, ASCA, ENVTEX, ENVSHADE (like many if not most others), all running great, automatically, looking different everyday everywhere, very realistic and awesome in P3D 4.5 😁

To me this is a another case of rex coming to the game too late, and providing a product in which much of it involves time away from the cockpit....I'd rather be flying.👨‍✈️

Maybe this rex 'force' series will develop into something useful to me later.🙂

I hope that simmers who choose the rex method will enjoy it, but I can tell you, that you will enjoy it more, if you just read the manual! 😖

Did you watch the twitch stream?

None of what you have can give what EF can do, de-saturate the water and land class under overcast. De-saturate water to be very dark in overcast and in good sunshine makes water/sea blue. Give overcast that gives Dense Cirrus overcast layer, not done before. The layer also went as far as the earth curve at a high of 70,000ft that some coverage.

Changers how the water reflects light and how high the waves are given the wind speed. All done on the fly as the wind weather changes.

All this is done of the fly so when light hits the water/land it all looks natural. 

I Run Envtex only for sky colors with ASCA, ASP4, SF but none of them gives me what I've seen EF does. But if you don't see it will your own eyes your just making assumptions, it's a product you need to see running on your own PC Paul to see what it really does as no screenshots are going to show its magic.

I Suggest you watch the steam as that's the best way to see what it's about.

Edited by Nyxx

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, pvupilot said:

REX states "If you are using Environment Force you do not need to open SF3D." in another thread.

Yes, it confusing somewhere I read you need SF open for? it might be for structures?......REX are not the best for making things clear that's for sure. Am sure I heard they going to make EF start SF automatically in an update?

Edited by Nyxx

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Looks like a hotfix for TS is very close...."We are in the middle of building the HOTFIX Please stand by and thank you for your patience while we resolve this issue "

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Just now, Nyxx said:

Looks like a hotfix for TS is very close...."We are in the middle of building the HOTFIX Please stand by and thank you for your patience while we resolve this issue "

Thanks for the heads up , I have pause my flight sim just waiting for the hot fix . 😄

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19 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Did you watch the twitch stream?

None of what you have can give what EF can do, de-saturate the water and land class under overcast. De-saturate water to be very dark in overcast and in good sunshine makes water/sea blue. Give overcast that gives Dense Cirrus overcast layer, not done before. The layer also went as far as the earth curve at a high of 70,000ft that some coverage.

Changers how the water reflects light and how high the waves are given the wind speed. All done on the fly as the wind weather changes.

All this is done of the fly so when light hits the water/land it all looks natural. 

I Run Envtex only for sky colors with ASCA, ASP4, SF but none of them gives me what I've seen EF does. But if you don't see it will your own eyes your just making assumptions, it's a product you need to see running on your own PC Paul to see what it really does as no screenshots are going to show its magic.

I Suggest you watch the steam as that's the best way to see what it's about.

Some of this is not entirely true; although not entirely dynamic, ENVSHADE does apply shaders based on dynamic factors. To that point, the color of the water is impacted by the temperture and clouds:  

DYNAMIC REALISM

Forget about seeing vibrant blue water in bad weather, feel the power of the lights at night just like when your eyes are used to darkness for a few hours, forget about the bright nights when the moon is not there, enjoy watching all the New York City lights when passing over at FL410, take care about the atmosphere moisture during VFR flights...
Envshade will transform your flights in a living environment where colors evolve in real time.

 

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26 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Yes, it confusing somewhere I read you need SF open for? it might be for structures?......REX are not the best for making things clear that's for sure. Am sure I heard they going to make EF start SF automatically in an update?

Agreed, it does get pretty confusing

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Posted (edited)

Watch the Video Matt and you tell me if Envshade can do what you see? If it does that's amazing. All on the fly. Not on load. Am not here to stick up for REX just after the best sim experience I can get and I don't care who makes it.

Edited by Nyxx

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3 hours ago, Cruachan said:

Hi Ken,

You seem to be quite emphatic about this. I’m not suggestion you are wrong, but it would be helpful if you would relate your experiences. In my previous post I suggested this might be a possibility as REX Environment Force may be coded to use it’s own dynamic (assuming they are dynamic and applied on the fly) shader tweaks which overwrite any pre-existing tweaks applied to the shader set in ShadersHLSL. It seems unlikely that LM would share with REX the intellectual rights that would allow restoration of the default shaders in customers’ P3D installations.

So, assuming you are indeed correct, PTA, TS, etc. would become irrelevant. In fact, following this line of thought, there may not be any need to restore the default shaders prior to using REX Environment Force as EF will be applying its own tweaks over anything that has been applied before.

Please correct me if I’m wrong about this. I do not wish to give the impression that I know more than I do. Any clarification or confirmation would be helpful particularly for those of us who might prefer to stick with our static shader tweaks and, as some have experienced, risk losing the ability to restore their favoured tweaked shader set short of reinstalling the P3D Client. Not a big deal, I know, but more of a nuisance.

Regards,

Mike

Hi, Mike! As I said, IMHO. It´s ok if you disagree, I like you anyway;-)

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Dave,

I have been using ENVSADE for a year and am very happy with the results. It does indeed apply shades based on dynamic factors; I see this espically when flying around Boston.  I'm not suggesting it does it better, or to the extent that EF does, just that it does include this feature.  IMO, it works well.     

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It sounds very good Matt.

Matt I did a guild to when SF came out J and I posted the same guild within 30 mins of each other I read you liked it (J's got put on a sticky better grammar and spelling than me lol. If and when I get EF up and running I will happily share my finding and help inform in any way I can.

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I feel like REX would've saved themselves major headaches if they had just said environment force isnt compatible with other shader mods.

Even though its compatible, it doesn't seem to work well.

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25 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

It sounds very good Matt.

Matt I did a guild to when SF came out J and I posted the same guild within 30 mins of each other I read you liked it (J's got put on a sticky better grammar and spelling than me lol. If and when I get EF up and running I will happily share my finding and help inform in any way I can.

I would very much appreciat that, David.  It helped!  

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Glad to see you back Nyxx

J van E gave us all a Procedure under P3D Tips that did the job for me on the last go around for Active Sky,SkyForce etc

I look forward to the next one on Rex Env.Force

Too much at stake for me to rush in and “poison” a functioning sim

(even P3D4.5 awaits a Hotfix)

Thanks for all your efforts on behalf of the  less tech savvy !

xxd09

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1 hour ago, kingm56 said:

Some of this is not entirely true; although not entirely dynamic, ENVSHADE does apply shaders based on dynamic factors. To that point, the color of the water is impacted by the temperture and clouds:  

DYNAMIC REALISM

Forget about seeing vibrant blue water in bad weather, feel the power of the lights at night just like when your eyes are used to darkness for a few hours, forget about the bright nights when the moon is not there, enjoy watching all the New York City lights when passing over at FL410, take care about the atmosphere moisture during VFR flights...
Envshade will transform your flights in a living environment where colors evolve in real time.

 

EnvShade modifies and recompiles a number of the shaders when it is run prior to P3d running (as do TS and PTA). In automatic mode, REX EF supposedly uses atmospheric conditions to recompile certain shaders dynamically, while the sim is running, at least that's what the REX literature says it does. When REX EF is combined with either EnvShade, Tomato Shade or PTA, those three utilities provide the initial shader conditions to the sim.  Obviously, REX made a few incorrect assumptions about how widely variable that those shader tweaks could be in those three other add-ons. I admit to being biased here, because I'm really negative about PTA and TS. They allow the user a ton of flexibility without preventing the user from gumming up the works. There's a reason why PMDG says don't use any shader mods and that could apply also to EnvShade and REX EF. The difference is that those two add-ons have automatic modes, which prevent the user from playing around too much.

In any case, the visual effect in REX EF is the most natural I've seen in any sim. Dawn and dusk never looked so realistic.

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3 hours ago, rstough said:

There is not need to use the weather smoothing with ASP4 because they have their own function.  However, it works with all other weather engines.  It does work with ASP4 but seems a little redundant.

Isn't the cloud building and dissipation part of "weather smoothing"? Because I thought that was the biggest selling point of EF. I certainly don't want to give that up when I install EF, but I'm not giving up ASP4.

Pete

 

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2 hours ago, Nyxx said:

Did you watch the twitch stream?

None of what you have can give what EF can do, de-saturate the water and land class under overcast. De-saturate water to be very dark in overcast and in good sunshine makes water/sea blue. Give overcast that gives Dense Cirrus overcast layer, not done before. The layer also went as far as the earth curve at a high of 70,000ft that some coverage.

Changers how the water reflects light and how high the waves are given the wind speed. All done on the fly as the wind weather changes.

All this is done of the fly so when light hits the water/land it all looks natural. 

I Run Envtex only for sky colors with ASCA, ASP4, SF but none of them gives me what I've seen EF does. But if you don't see it will your own eyes your just making assumptions, it's a product you need to see running on your own PC Paul to see what it really does as no screenshots are going to show its magic.

I Suggest you watch the steam as that's the best way to see what it's about.

I did watch about half of the stream and saw much of what it could do. I read the section of the manual that interested me concerning automation mode, and it was shown to be conflicted. Specifically, "enable weather smoothing", the screen shot of the UI says disable if using AS. The following page with explanations says works with all 3rd party weather engines. So which one is it? I know the answer, but why does rex itself not know (or check the manual over before releasing).  

You say it yourself:

2 hours ago, Nyxx said:

REX are not the best for making things clear that's for sure.

I expect rex to know what its doing/saying/providing/charging for. 

My understanding is that EF is not a weather engine, but point number 2, "enable real time weather data read" in the manual makes it clear that it is a weather engine, what to believe? Is the manual wrong again? So SF is a wx engine, EF is a wx engine, what is anybody going to need weather force for?  

This is what rex says about weather force:

This is the official update on the Weather Force Addon for Sky Force 3D.  The Weather Force addon is a feature that will be a part of the larger update called "Creative Update 1" for Sky Force in the near future.  Weather Force is a newly enhanced weather engine feature that brings not only better handling of the weather, but smooth weather transitions during updates.  

EF and SF already do this right? But still, with both of them many users will still use Active Sky. Is weather force really going to be better than Active Sky? rex will say so in the manual, but nobody will bet their life or a even a pop tart (😂) on it.

Essentially a state of confusion. I (surely we all) have better things to do than having to investigate whether something in a product manual is true or not.

I really want to give rex a chance, but these plain true facts are too far below the bar for me. 

I serriously appriciate you taking the time to care about my simulation expierence David, that was very kind of you. Take care.🙂

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Posted (edited)

OK than......As I said I got that famous EF.....LOL, Installed, read thru whole manual (twice) started my money bravo and spent almost whole tank of fuel flying around Barcelona where I can have all three: Water, nice terrain and clouds...and I like it!

Well, not that fast, LOL, I played with every single thing and only thing that I don't get it is VC, everything else works as advertised and my SIM looks better than ever, outside. But VC i grey. I took Mooney for spin and I see only three buttons in red inside and everything else is grey?! PTA is behind as well, HDR in P3D is OFF and HDR in EF is ON.

What I like with this is that on UI adjustments reacts quickly and results are in front of your eyes, but I still have to find answer for VC...because is lifeless. Once I find that I will find the Holy Grail of EF....lol.

If anyone can jump with an idea that would be great.

 

P.S.

Removed PTA, VC is still grey, outside looks really good.....so only thing that is NOT good is Cockpit issue...(BTW tried every combination with HDR)

 

P.S2.

Made it...Recompiled shaders in EF and got life in the cockpit. all works normal, P3D HDR must be off and HDR in EF must be on. No PTA....

Edited by cyyzrwy24

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