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Environment Force Discussion Thread

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My understanding is that REX EF reads also Weather data, along your flights, and then changes automaticly the lightning/brightness, coloring, wavespeed, wavesize Saturization, and sky-/cloud-textures in flight without recompiling which so far as I know PTA isn´t capable of (No weather influenced automation mode to change shaders). Or am I wrong? 

Does PTA v3 read weather Data to adjust automaticly the environment? 

Regards Marcus

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42 minutes ago, bbuckley said:

So yesterday I decided I'm going to make EF work for me...

I have been using SF3D with your PTA All Months AprV16 preset. Initially I fired up with EF and everything was washed out and gray, so I disabled the EF HDR and enabled the P3D HDR and after a minute or two, magically the VC and surroundings looked great. Very much like I had it before. My only issue is I get the "billboard" trees that are a flat bright green until I get close to them, then they start to pop into full depth and shading. Not sure whether that's an ORBX Trees HD issue, or the airport scenery I am at, or PTA, or EF. Too hard to tell.

@GSalden since I'm using your PTA preset, ASP4, SF3D & EF, what should I disable or change in your preset that is "dynamic" to play nice with EF? The one test flight I've done was very nice BTW.

Thanks,

Bruce

 

Hi Bruce,

Just check the tweaks in PTA.

If you see a formula than it is an expression.

I would not use my preset icw EF as it would be Dynamic on top of Dynamic.

Just start with a PTS preset and make sure all tweaks are set to the default values.

When EF is running you Note for yourself what you would like to be a little different .

Eg : if you find the cloud shadows not dark enough when using EF you could change the value in PTA do cloud shadows appear darker... ( Terrain Lighting )

Use PTA for finetuning..

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Nyxx said:

Hi Michael,

That made no sense at all 🙂 

Going from brightness 1 to 1.3 should make things brighter, no darker!

Michael, try this, use the option in the mini UI to set back to factory setting. Turn OFF HDR in P3D. 

 

Hi David ,

My issue is that when swichting from VC to Outside view the ligtning/brightness is very different on my system.

Forinstance HDR at 1,0 makes the VC rather bright with EF HDR default settings.  but not outside view. Its very dark.

If i tone down EF HDR to 0.300 and adjust P3D HDR brightness to 1.3 the VC is darker and the outside view is brighter than before.

So HDR must be doeing something for VC and outside view independtly.

But like you said HDR off reminds me of ENVSHADE which i like

Thanks

Michael Moe

 

 

Edited by Michael Moe

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Posted (edited)

That is so strange Michael.

Also makes no sense why it should do that.

Do you use TS or PTA with VC lighting?

If I was you I would delete P3D shaders and remove your HLSL shader folder to your desktop, Do a client repair and just see what happens will all new default shaders.

Edited by Nyxx
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1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

That is so strange Michael.

Also makes no sense why it should do that.

Do you use TS or PTA with VC lighting?

If I was you I would delete P3D shaders and remove your HLSL shader folder to your desktop, Do a client repair and just see what happens will all new default shaders.

That sounds like a good ideer 😉 my friend. 

Maybe ENVSHADE is not really restoring to default as it is suppose to in Its software. 

Oh well i also find the FSL bus harder and harder to maintain my 25 fps. But thats another ball game. 

Michael Moe 

 

 

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7 hours ago, GEKtheReaper said:

@Lorby_SI Crazy idea man. You created a wonderfull flashlight tool i can't live without anymore.

What about a Sunglas tool to overcome the bright cockpits or the bloom issue????? 😁 Could create it with a orange, brownish, green tint and even with a small watermark like Ray-Ben and stuff.

PS: I know this is off topic but the idea just came to me after writing above post and told me: What the hell...I could patent that (unfortunately I'm not Lorby). Should be read as a small joke aside.

Sounds interesting, I will see what I can do. 

Best regards

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14 hours ago, 0Artur0 said:

Why is this initial tweaking necessary? Because you don't like what REX set as initial settings or because if you don't you get the default P3D look?

Off topic: Does anybody know why are the things I quote all messed up with line brakes and some random numbers?

It is a good question and I didn't explain. It depends on whether your monitor/headset is calibrated or not. Mine isn't and can't be so I had to tweak saturation levels. I do think that saturation is a bit subjective anyway though.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, mpo910 said:

My understanding is that REX EF reads also Weather data, along your flights, and then changes automaticly the lightning/brightness, coloring, wavespeed, wavesize Saturization, and sky-/cloud-textures in flight without recompiling which so far as I know PTA isn´t capable of (No weather influenced automation mode to change shaders). Or am I wrong? 

Does PTA v3 read weather Data to adjust automaticly the environment? 

Regards Marcus

Brightness etc because of weather conditions, clouds , sunstrenghth is already changing by default in P3D.

PTA is able to add expressions so it will change even more according to weather , time of day , shadows and altitude ...

PTA/TS using expressions will change Shaders according to conditions that exist in P3D. So if any weather program injects weather the conditions are automatically changed inside the Shaders. So Dynamic changes in your P3D Environment .

No magic and it is there for more than 2 years....

Just re-read this thread as it has been discussed several times already ...

Edited by GSalden

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Posted (edited)

After finishing a compleat new install last night I just did a take off in the default Maule to have a quick look. 

What I noticed that I've not seen before, the sun was lowish in the sky in front of me and all the broke clouds in front of me were dark! I took off and did a 180 turn and wow! now I was looking at the clouds facing the sun, they were bright white with the glow of the sun. Looked amazing. A year on PTA and a few months on TS, not seen lighting like that before. 

It seems a scene is not going to give you that photoshop contrast/saturated looks that can and does look amazing. But instead, gives a more subtle feel not trying to blow you away kind of feel. Basically more real lifelike. All with no profiles or tweaking. This time I've not even changed one thing in EF, not one within mini UI. The main menu you have to set up, but that's a one-off thing.

Am sure HiFi might bring something new out this year, a new PTA all gives us choices to suit our own needs.

The other thing I noticed last night with no TS was how amazing the PBR PMDG-8 looked like with low sunlight on it, it really was a WOW and even the old PMDG NG had really nice reflections, no idea but it did not look that good in 4.4 with or without TS. 

It's nice to start completely afresh even if its a pain to do. But if it lasts me till v5 its worth it.

Looking ahead FSL will release PBR with there A321 and that also will come to the 319-320 making imo TS redundant. The new PTA I might well use to tweak the VC and nothing else, we will see.

 

Edited by Nyxx
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Clouds dark with a low sun .. ?

On my setup it looks like :

Dusk_All%20Months%20v13.jpg

 

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But how can the back of the clouds be orange lighted when the light comes from the front?

clouds-cloud-sundown-sunset-e14455922698 

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

But how can the back of the clouds be orange lighted when the light comes from the front?

Nice shot.

Because the light travels thru the atmosphere. That same atmosphere "colours" the light. The sun always emits in the same spectrum. 😉

Edited by Rasterfahnder

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Posted (edited)

@JoeFackel

On my image you are looking on top of the clouds and on your image you are looking at the bottom of the clouds ....

Nice%20Dusk%20-%20P3Dv41.jpg

Edited by GSalden
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

After finishing a compleat new install last night I just did a take off in the default Maule to have a quick look. 

What I noticed that I've not seen before, the sun was lowish in the sky in front of me and all the broke clouds in front of me were dark! I took off and did a 180 turn and wow! now I was looking at the clouds facing the sun, they were bright white with the glow of the sun. Looked amazing. A year on PTA and a few months on TS, not seen lighting like that before. 

It seems a scene is not going to give you that photoshop contrast/saturated looks that can and does look amazing. But instead, gives a more subtle feel not trying to blow you away kind of feel. Basically more real lifelike. All with no profiles or tweaking. This time I've not even changed one thing in EF, not one within mini UI. The main menu you have to set up, but that's a one-off thing.

Am sure HiFi might bring something new out this year, a new PTA all gives us choices to suit our own needs.

The other thing I noticed last night with no TS was how amazing the PBR PMDG-8 looked like with low sunlight on it, it really was a WOW and even the old PMDG NG had really nice reflections, no idea but it did not look that good in 4.4 with or without TS. 

It's nice to start completely afresh even if its a pain to do. But if it lasts me till v5 its worth it.

Looking ahead FSL will release PBR with there A321 and that also will come to the 319-320 making imo TS redundant. The new PTA I might well use to tweak the VC and nothing else, we will see.

 

True David preferred combo now is ASP4+SF+EF the PTA and TS presets I have seen are far to dark and not real life 😉 Maybe they like it that way that's a different story....

 

 

 

Edited by awf

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GSalden said:

Clouds dark with a low sun .. ?

On my setup it looks like :

Dusk_All%20Months%20v13.jpg

 

No Garard, The sun was higher about 1-2 hours before yours. But looked far more like the photo below.

1 hour ago, JoeFackel said:

But how can the back of the clouds be orange lighted when the light comes from the front?

clouds-cloud-sundown-sunset-e14455922698 

Turning around in the same scene the clouds facing the sun now, they were not only white but they glow and seem to reflect light. Bloom perhaps.

Edited by Nyxx
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9 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

No Garard, The sun was higher about 1-2 hours before your. But looked far more like the photo below.

Turning around in the same scene the clouds facing the sun now, they were not only white but they glow and seem to reflect light.

Question David, do you have in EF also set read RW data on or off with ASP4?

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26 minutes ago, awf said:

Question David, do you have in EF also set read RW data on or off with ASP4?

dave  uses  asp4

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, awf said:

Question David, do you have in EF also set read RW data on or off with ASP4?

The first two options I have ON, So yes Andre. Peter is right I use ASP4

In EF I have transition time set to 10 mins and ASP4 updates set to 15 mins. The smoother and the most subtle the better.

I also have HDR turned OFF in P3D

All logging/error reporting in P3D/SF/EF/ASP4 all that rubbish is turned off. I don't want any of that stuff running thank you.

TIP: Its seems there is a bug with "Fog" till the next update. ASP4 real-time weather when you start a flight and the mini UI is open Turn Fog option at the very top OFF.

Also...

After updating ASP4 with "updates" since the start. I did a clean install with just the 4.5HF patch ASP4 works better.

Cloud draw min 150 miles, max 150 miles, max upper vis 150 miles. 5 cloud layers. SF and EF textures set to DTX5 1024

Edited by Nyxx
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nyxx said:

The first two options I have ON, So yes Andre. Peter is right I use ASP4

In EF I have transition time set to 10 mins and ASP4 updates set to 15 mins. The smoother and the most subtle the better.

I also have HDR turned OFF in P3D

All logging/error reporting in P3D/SF/EF/ASP4 all that rubbish is turned off. I don't want any of that stuff running thank you.

TIP: Its seems there is a bug with "Fog" till the next update. ASP4 real-time weather when you start a flight and the mini UI is open Turn Fog option at the very top OFF.

Also...

After updating ASP4 with "updates" since the start. I did a clean install with just the 4.5HF patch ASP4 works better.

Cloud draw min 150 miles, max 150 miles, max upper vis 150 miles. 5 cloud layers. SF and EF textures set to DTX5 1024

Appreciated thanks running also ASP4, in the mini UI I also was disabling fog...

My understanding is that HDR should be enabled in P3D otherwise in EF it won't do anything (like a layer on top)

Thanks.

Edited by awf

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3 hours ago, GSalden said:

@JoeFackel

On my image you are looking on top of the clouds and on your image you are looking at the bottom of the clouds ....

It just depends on where the cloud is. Is it between you and the sun, the clouds surface showing in your direction is dark.

0a970c3107524cd42bbcfaba5316a707.jpg

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11 minutes ago, awf said:

My understanding is that HDR should be enabled in P3D otherwise in EF it won't do anything (like a layer on top)

Thanks.

Andre, I really don't know, I would say from the lighting a saw in the clouds etc bloom and light were working. Try it and you tell me. Like I said I don't know and it would be nice to know. I turned it off after watching a flyboy FSL stream he is an IRL FO and showed the lights on LS FD AP are the true colour if you turn off P3D HDR and he uses EF also.

I would be interested in your finding as it seems the wife has me to Bizzy to fly till Sunday.

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Also, the manual is still misleading we all know we should turn the top two options OFF in Auto mode but now it seems with ASP4 EF works better with both ON. 

REX should reach out for more beta testers to help.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Also, the manual is still misleading we all know we should turn the top two options OFF in Auto mode but now it seems with ASP4 EF works better with both ON. 

REX should reach out for more beta testers to help.

EF is a complex product: it is sometimes compared to other static shaders (and now the called dynamic ones) but don't forget all EF tweaks are tied to real weather readings in auto mode (not just link to a season variable or time of the date variable). Also, we are changing the lightning variables as you fly so EF can't be compared to shader addons where lightning is given (all light is passed hard-coded to the shader). Needless to say texture swaps on-the-fly, or the overcast/cloud framework features.

We are also ironing the bugs, so you will have noticed that with our existing Beta Team and the Insiders group we have fixed many bugs and there are some more fixes to come. We are also polishing the auto-mode algorithms.

What's next? Is to have a fully customize shader tool, for the ones who like to tweak. For the ones who like to fly, auto mode will have more robust algorithms which will improve the flying immersion.

For all of you who have interacted with us, I would like to thank you personally.

We will continue to listen to your suggestions.

Thanks

Federico

 

Edited by fs1
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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, awf said:

My understanding is that HDR should be enabled in P3D otherwise in EF it won't do anything (like a layer on top)

Then I wonder why there should be an option in EF to turn off HDR?

Patric

Edited by pscharff

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JoeFackel said:

It just depends on where the cloud is. Is it between you and the sun, the clouds surface showing in your direction is dark.

 

cockpit2_zps2bookxab.jpg

Edited by awf

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